Is this a Police 1.5???

[sgt1372]

I recently started refocusing on completing & expanding my collection of Police C07 Spyderco knives.

It's pretty much "catch as catch can" when trying to build a collection of vintage Spydercos regardless of the model. I've found that some models just pop up when you least expect it & you just have to keep looking & trying to remember what you're looking for.

This has happened with me with several models, like the Blackhawk, Renegade & Impala, when I never saw anything offered that I wanted to buy & then found a rush of them offered all at the same time requiring me to buy them all to complete those collections.

As for the Police model, I have a decent copy of a SE Gen 1 PIG but I have yet to ever see a decent copy of a PE PIG offered for sale to go with it.

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I've had the same problem trying to find a PE variation of the 2 clip screw ATS-34 &/or 440V variations of the Gen 1 Military to go with the PE variations in those blade steels that I already have in my collection.

It's like they were never made but that's another matter, despite being mentioned as known variations in SpydieWiki.

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So, this brings me to the following question.

To Sal &/or those more knowledgeable than me, is this a photo of a 1, Gen 2 or Gen 1.5 Police Model?

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The reason that I ask is that:

Gen 1 Police (except for the PIG) are described in Spydiewiki as having with beveled/unchambered scales, no steel marking (just the word Spyderco) on the blade, no Boye dent in the lock tab, the words POLICE MODEL printed on the blade & the lock tab positioned ahead of the mid point of the handle.

On the other hand . . .

Gen 2 Police are described in Spydiewiki as having beveled/chambered scales, being marked as GIN-1/G2, ATS-55 or VG-10 on the blade,. having a Boye dent in the lock tab in 2001 & beyond & with only the word "Police" printed on the blade & the position of the lock moved to the mid point of the handle.

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However, the knife pictured does not meet either of these descriptions & appears to be a hybrid of both with it's unbeveled /unchambered scales, the words POLICE MODEL printed on the blade, no blade steel marking on the blade, no Boye dent on the locking tab & positioning of the lock tab at the middle of the handle.

BTW & FWIW, I've never yet seen any SE Police that meets the description of a Gen 1 Police Model, except for the SE PIG that I own.

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So, it appears that it's neither a Gen 1 nor a Gen 2 as defined by Spydiewiki &. for now, I'm calling it a Police Gen 1.5 & I'm not going to buy it because it does not meet my requirements to be a Gen 1 Police Model which is what I want to add to my collection.

Are there any Police Model experts out there who can explain/clarify and/or elaborate on these observations of mine???

 

[rycen]

Those scales certainly look beveled to me.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Sgt,

I respect and appreciate your interest in our products. So thanx much for that.

The first Police model was the "PIG" version (1984). No chamfer on the scales and the mid back-lock was father forward.
The second version was the one shown above. We moved he lock release farther back because I wanted more spring strength for the lock.

On the net variation, we chamfered the scales and changed the engraving to "Police Model" because customers were complaining about the "PIG" engraving. Over the next years, the engraving was removed or changed a number of times. The stamping on the blade was changed and we added the steel, which I always wanted to do. I listed G2 as the steel because the maker, at the time, didn't want me to use the name Gingami 1. I picked G2, which stood for "Good sh*t also". I included the chemistry of the steel as there was no US equivalent at the time. There were a number of variations to the model pattern for years, including Titanium scales, Carbon fiber scales and 50/50 serrations, the Earthling model, etc. While we didn't call it anything, I guess you could say that he above pattern was the Police 2? We didn't begin using subsequent versions (like "2"), as a name until later in our development. The Police 2 was a pattern change as was the Police 3 and Police 4. Variation numbers usually refer to a change in the pattern or tooling. We also added and removed a lanyard hole, and moved from pinned construction to screw construction.

Hope that helps?

sal

 

[sgt1372]

Thanks for your detailed response, Sal.

From what you've said I gather that SE Police pictured is an early Gen 2 but, since it has attributes of both a Gen 1 & Gen 2, it was most likely a transitional model that I'd prefer to describe as a Gen 1.5.

So, I'll continue to look for a true Gen 1 SE, like the SE PIG that I own, except with the words "Police Model" printed on the blade.

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BTW, never heard of it before. So, I did a quick search.

Is this the Earthing Police Model that you mentioned???

It's a fascinating design but it's a collector's "rabbit hole" that I don't even want to considering wandering into.

I'll stick with the plain S/S, G10 &, if I can find them, the CF handled Police models for now.

LOL!

 

[yablanowitz]

First Generation Police Model non-PIG.



The one you asked about is an early Gen 2, before the steel was marked (around 1989 to 1991).



Here is an early Gen2 between two Gen1 non-PIG
so you can see more clearly the redesign between the generations.



And yes, the picture you found is the Santa Fe Stoneworks "Earthling" Sal spoke of.

 

[sgt1372]

Thanks Yab!

The non-PIG Gen 1 SE that you posted a pic of above is what I've been looking for but I haven't seen one offered for sale for any price anywhere yet.

Not even in the past sales listed on ACK..

And, while I have an SE Gen-1 PIG, I've never seen a PE Gen-1 PIG worth buying anywhere yet either.

So, the search continues . . .

 

[rycen]

sgt1372

In my opinion take Spydiewiki with a grain of salt on certain aspects. Since Spyderco has sole control now edits and updates to old models aren’t plentiful. Adding new models has been ok though.

Also as far as I’ve read collectors really don’t refer to the stainless police in generations unless officially named by Spyderco.

Take all the above with a larger grain of salt as I haven’t been collecting all that long.

 

[yablanowitz]

Thanks Yab!

The non-PIG Gen 1 SE that you posted a pic of above is what I've been looking for but I haven't seen one offered for sale for any price anywhere yet.

Not even in the past sales listed on ACK..

And, while I have an SE Gen-1 PIG, I've never seen a PE Gen-1 PIG worth buying anywhere yet either.

So, the search continues . . .

It took me sixteen years to land a PE PIG at a reasonable price (<$400). It isn't pristine, but most of mine aren't.

 

[sgt1372]

sgt1372

In my opinion take Spydiewiki with a grain of salt on certain aspects. Since Spyderco has sole control now edits and updates to old models aren’t plentiful. Adding new models has been ok though.

Also as far as I’ve read collectors really don’t refer to the stainless police in generations unless officially named by Spyderco.

Take all the above with a larger grain of salt as I haven’t been collecting all that long.

Of course, like Wiki itself, the info on SpydieWiki is participant based & the info there isn't guaranteed to be correct BUT it's the only central source of info available regarding Spyderco knives & I'm happy it's there.

And as far as the Police model is concerned, there are clearly defined generational differences in the model from Gen 1 thru 4 & whether Sal & Spyderco specifically recognized the changes as generational or not, they exist as a matter of fact.

 

[sgt1372]

It took me sixteen years to land a PE PIG at a reasonable price (<$400). It isn't pristine, but most of mine aren't.

I'm 75 now. I should live so long. Fingers crossed. LOL!!!

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PS: During the course of this conversation, I purchased a PE Gen 1 Police model. Receipt pending. Pics to follow.

 

[yablanowitz]

The SE first generation was my second Police Model. I had a much newer (Gen 2, although I didn't know it then) PE that I liked, when I won an eBay auction for two "Stainless steel Spyderco knives". One was a slab sided, well worn first generation serrated, the other was an aluminum handle that I thought was a fake until I started researching and found out they had made one. Trying to find matching PE pieces to pair with them set off the whole collecting thing. With help from Sal, I've learned a lot about them along the way.

 

[sgt1372]

The SE first generation was my second Police Model. I had a much newer (Gen 2, although I didn't know it then) PE that I liked, when I won an eBay auction for two "Stainless steel Spyderco knives". One was a slab sided, well worn first generation serrated, the other was an aluminum handle that I thought was a fake until I started researching and found out they had made one. Trying to find matching PE pieces to pair with them set off the whole collecting thing. With help from Sal, I've learned a lot about them along the way.

Sounds similar to my entry into the "rabbit hole" of becoming a Spyderco knife collector.

So many models to choose from & so many variations of certain models (some based on subtleties that most people wouldn't notice) that appeals to my instinct to search for such things.

It's more about the search than the acquisition for me but without the acquisition the search would be meaningless.

I just "found" a PE & SE pair of Police 1.5's for sale, the PE is the rarer of the 2 & I'm still debating whether to buy them or not because the 1.5 is just a transitional hybrid design only of interest to a Spyderco collector like you or me.

Besides, I still need to find a Gen 1 PE PIG & a Gen 1 SE "Police Model" to complete my Gen 1 Police collection which I consider a much more important endeavor. LOL!