is this correct ?

O

orion7

Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Messages
16
for heat treating 5160:

forge the blade, always above critical
normalize 3 times by heating above critical and letting air cool
anneal the blade by heating above critical and letting it slow-cool in vermiculite or the forge
heat to critical and immediately quench (i'm using corn oil) for 6-10 seconds
temper in oven at 375 degrees for 1hr

will this give me a blade that would likely pass the abs journeyman test?

thanks,

steve
 
The annealing step is not necessary. And it removes any benefit of the 3x normalizing.
 
The slower you cool the steel the more coarse the grain structure.
The annealing would take place right after forging to make grinding,filing,drilling etc. easier.
Then you should normalize 3 times before the quench as it will reduce the grain size, and give you a uniform structure going into the quench.
 
I may get roasted for saying this, but I only "Normalize" untill thge blade is "normalized"

Let me explain: I heat to blade to critical, and let cool spine down on the anvil. If the blade warps, either the edge or the spine, I heat, straighten, and repeat.

I do this untill the blade stops moving. sometimes this takes one heat, sometimes it takes a lot more, depending a lot on the sttel and the stresses I've placed on it by forging, welding, grinding etc.

This is how I do it, your mileage may vary

Tony
 
mete, matt, tony, and paul,

thanks to all of you for the helpful info.

do any of you know at what temp and time to temper in oven? i've heard 375 degrees for 1 hr.

also, to toughen the spine, should/could one heat it slowly with a torch to a blue color? while leaving the cutting edge alone?

i really do want to make a good knife.

unfortunately, i live in las vegas and there are no bladesmith or experienced makers here that i know of.

steve
 
Steve, I think your blade will do OK but You dont need to anneal unless You want to drill or cut with a band saw. I also think the 5160 benefits from at least 2 temper cycles. You should do some testing to build your confidence. The spine draw is time consuming to do it right, you should just quench the edge. I dont know where you heard about 6-10 seconds but you need to leave it in the quench until it is the same temp as the quench. If you did your normalizing right the blade wont be warped. Oh yeah pre-heat the quench to about 130f

BTW Devin Thomas lives in Your area. He is one of the best and a fine fellow.
 
thanks bruce & paul,

i tried to contact hirsoullas last Fall from the contact e-mail on his website. He did not respond

i'd never heard of devin thomas. he lives N about 175 miles. i checked out his web site, he makes some great looking damascus

sp
 
orion7 - I would suggest you attend a class on the ABS journeyman test at an ABS hammer-in.The master smiths who teach the class will be of great help.Check the ABS site for one out your way.There will also usually be metallurgical classes to help you understand the things you are asking.Hirsoulas's book ,"The complete bladesmith ",has good HT info,also.
The information you are asking about must be mastered and understood to become a journeyman.
 
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