Is this idea for a power hammer for forge welding possible?

B

boyntonstu

Joined
Dec 25, 2003
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I am going into elevator cable knife making.

I was thinking of alternatives to pounding the hot steel cable on an anvil with a hammer using only "Armstrong" power, when I thought of my hammer drill.

What if: I chucked a hammer head on a ball bearing mount to a heavy duty 1" hammer drill and applied additional force with a hydraulic cylinder (or something like a Famco kick press)? Would 10,000 little hits per minute do the job?

Anyone?

Anyone with another inexpensive way to power wail the cable into a solid blade?


BoyntonStu
 
In the industrial world there are two types of forges , hammer and press. When you try to hammer forge a thick section of tool steel for example you find that the hammer doesn't work the center. However the press will. Translating that to cable forging ,you must work the entire cable from surface to center . I think that many light blows with a hammer drill might not work the center. Fewer blows with a heavier hammer (hand or machine) would do better. If you do a search on cable damascus you will find the general comment that the cable has to be worked quite a bit to make sure you have eliminated all the voids. Us e a bigger hammer .
 
Applying more force on a hammer drill will just shorten its life. Listen to Mete! Cable is something that can be done with hand held hammers. Learn how to forge and you'll find cable isn't that tuff. Wayne Goddard has both a vidio and a CD on doing cable......
 
Mete,

I apologize for using non-quantatative terms like little, etc.

A hammer drill pushed by a person (~100 lb force) will cut through concrete like a drill through wood.

If I hit a hot cable with a 5 pound hammer with 100 pounds arm force behind it, the Pressure would be 100 pounds / contact area between hammer face and cable.

If instead of my 100 pounds force I substituted a 1 ton hydraulic car jack and added to that the "little" force of the hammer drill, (force TBD) I would imagine that the sum would be much, much greater than I could ever achieve by arm strength. On the other hand each hammer stroke would be minute in distance compared to each wail stroke.

Does this scenario make it possible?

Thanks for your thoughtful input.

BoyntonStu
 
Is your rig possible? Well the only way to know for sure is to try it and let us know. I think probably not. You mention using a car jack that is way too slow you'll lose your welding heat before the first squeeze is done. Make a couple by hand, its good for you and look around the web for plans for treadle hammers and hydraulic presses. I'll second Raymond's suggestion, both of Wayne Goddard's books and his video (the DVD is a steal at $25) are full of good info about cable Damascus.

Todd

PS If I did it right a pic of the first knife I made from scratch is attached. Cable damascus and Bocote.
 
If I hit a hot cable with a 5 pound hammer with 100 pounds arm force behind it, the Pressure would be 100 pounds / contact area between hammer face and cable.

I understand your theory but your drill will not be able to handle that force IMO...would think the only force you get from the drill hammer is the force it exerts, not how much pressure is exerted on it. If you wedge the drill between two imoveable objects and turn it on won't it just set there and hum? If you slowly back off one of the objects eventually the hammer on the drill will start to function but that will be the maximum "force" you will be able to apply. Does that make any sense?
 
Bruz,

Your most valid point is well taken. BUT, what if:

Instead of forcing the drill from behind the drill as is generally done, what if the press is pushing against a rectangular hunk of 1" steel and the hammer drill is riding along on the side? What you have is the force of a ram attempting to push flat the resisting hot cable and in addition the hammer vibrations with perhaps another 100 pounds of dead weigh lead behind it is also pushing?

You certainly gave me food for thought.

Will my mod make it a go?

This discusiion is why I find this group so valuable. One can put an idea out there and many smart folks like you can examine it and point out the flaws. I really appreciate your help.


BoyntonStu
 
It won't work dude.
I tried hitting some hot steel with an air chisel once and it barely made a mark at all. The only reason those things work on concrete is because it is brittle. Try using your hammer drill on a piece of wood and see where you get. Then hit that same hunk of wood with a 4lb hammer.

Light fast blows (like a hammerdrill) will move the steel on the surface but not in the center. Slow heavy blows will move both the outside and the center.

You can weld with a hand pumped press, but it is usually faster and easier to use a hammer.
 
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