Is this observation about packs right?

Crayola

Crayola

Joined
Sep 23, 1999
Messages
3,831
It seems to me that Military packs are generally wider and shorter, while civvie packs are narrow and tall. Why the difference? Or is my observation crappy? Civillian hiking packs look like it would be hard to get at gear, with the pack being so tall and narrow. Please edgumacate me!
 
You're dead on,seems like the civvie packs are built for light weight and comfort while mil packs are built so you can get at stuff in a hurry and longevity(wouldn't want to have a soldiers pack wear out,you'd have to issue him another)I really like my becker patrol pack.
 
here in aus everyone have internal frame packs, which are totally different to mil packs. internal frame packs keep very close to the body which gives the pack better balance ont he body and the narrowness reduces lateral movement.

mil packs have better ventilation and are made from tougher materials, as someone mentioned already.

i have one of these. its made from a combination of treated canvas and nylon, its water resistant and very tough.

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One of the aspects I have noticed is the number of "outside" pockets. It seems as if the military versions have more outside pockets to assist in quick removal of items (bandages, ammo, etc.). It seems that the companies judge that the backpacker or camper can just sit down and open up their pack to get to what they need, while the military man may not have the time to relax and search for an item while the bullets fly. Either way, I have found that the Eagle and Blackhawk products have taken the military designs and updated them where they can be used both ways.
 
The guy who writes most of the articles at www.paratrooper2000.com doesn't like many of the new military packs (which are more like commercial packs) because height of the pack prevents the wearer from raising his head to fire in the prone position. Not much of a consideration for your typical backpacker, but pretty damned important for an infantryman or special operator.
 
Military bergans tend to be short and wide for two reasons:
one, to sit above webbing/fighting order; two, so they don't hit the back of your helmet.

Frankly, they still tend to hit you in the back of the head when you hit the dirt. The solution is to have one strap loose so that you can slip it off as you drop, with the bergan dropping beside you.

The weight of equipment that a modern soldier has to carry is the same as for the Romans, 60-120lbs all in. So nothing changes there then. The huge military bergans are realy for moving from one location to another base where further operations can done from.
The military have small patrol packs and zip off/together side pouches that form day packs to keep the weight under control when contact is probable.

Civilian rucksacks can be longer and tighter to the body with hip belts to distribute the weight better. European mountaineering sacks are superb, at whatever size suites you. I like internal frames and just a couple of pockets.
 
Jumping a long-bodied ruck would be a pita for a paratrooper. Chute on your back, weapon under the arm, LBE, reserve at the front waist, and the ruck below the reserve. My DD Astralplane OK would be resting on my boot tops, awkward to move, impossible to fit when everybody's sitting in the plane in rows facing each other. You need a short pack for that.
 
but I think all you guys missed the point.

though I can be wrong, I think it is mostly because the militry person is wearing a utility belt and all kinds of things are hanging from it that would prevent a backpacker style lumbar pad which is more comfortable but deffinitely doesn't allow for speedy access to weapons on belt.



don't want to step on anyone's steel tip toes


chris
 
Chris,
LBE or fighting order, or whatever else you like to call it, is basically: webbing belt, ammo pouches, waterbottle and mess tin pouches, even an NBC pouch, and a yoke system over the shoulders to carry the weight (all in 30lbs or so). Soldiers don't go anywhere without it. There should be enough in your webbing to fight for several days.

Then on goes the bergan/rucksack. A long rucksack sitting on the pouches would end up above your head.

A huge amount of soldiers end up with back problems because of the weight carried at speed. The distribution of weight is not always that great either as there is not always the time to pack correctly. You make do and carry whatever when young and fit; then pay for it later in life. My back's in bits :( but then I blame that on sitting at the computer too long ;)
 
Even mil packs vary a lot in design. The old ALICE pack and the newer Becker Patrol have lots of external pouches. By contrast, my "Three Day Assault Pack" has no external pouches what-so-ever. It also has no frame, yet is very comfortable even fully loaded... My only problem with it is that its three separate sections interfere with one another such that if you really load one, you can not fully load the one inside or outside of it.
 
The military has been going down this road forever. The ALICE pack, which I totally despise, is unfortunately fairly durable. If a commercial pack could be made that is strong enough to put up with too much weight, being dropped, smashed and beat up, I think plenty of guys would adopt it. The problem is the military never issues things based on need, they issue equipment based on contracts that enrich political relationships. That's why so many of the spearhead units like the Rangers, Delta, SEALS, Marines and so on use "off the shelf" technology. Meanwhile some idiot general wants the soldier to look like the Borg and carry around 80+ pounds of electronics and cameras so HE can see what's going on since he's too chickenshit to get out there and lead from the front. This goes back to the soldier carrying far too much extra needless crap to begin with. I love the adoption of the commercial stuff, it works better than the ALICE, but doesn't last as long. This will continue until the actual fighters are allowed to pick their gear based on performance, not some desk jockey who wants to get promoted off the money he saved.
 
Thanks everyone for your info. I asked my soon-to-be brother in law the same question. He is a part of the Search and Rescue team for the Vancouver area, and he does LOTS of hiking and climbing. He told me a lot of interesting things, one of the most interesting being that the slimmer civvie packs make it easier for you to walk on narrow trails, and walk on trails with other people.
I have found your answers VERY interesting! Thanks!

Robert: if you were designing a pack for the military, what would you make?
 
I love Gregory's old Day-and-a-Half pack--basically a one compartment version of the Becker Patrol. It's a real load monster for a 1lb 15oz frameless pack.

For true load monsters check out www.mchalepacks.com particularly the models with the critical mass hipbelt and guide harness system. Awesome!
 
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