Is this the new normal?

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Tom Lewis

Tom Lewis

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I first started sending blades to Paul Bos heat treating in the late 1970's. At that time they would heat treat the blades, send them back to me and then a couple of weeks later I would get a bill which I always promptly paid. (By the way, they have always done an excellent job for me.)
Just recently I got a notice from Bos heat treating that they were changing the way they did business. Now a person sends the blades to them, they send a bill to the knifemaker and when the bill is paid they heat treat and return the blades.
The reason for this change is pretty obvious. Evidently some people were not paying their bills so now the heat treating service must be paid for before they will do the heat treating.
Is that the new normal?
Over a year ago I had a similar experience. A member of this forum was looking for some 203-E steel. I had some I was not using so I offered to give him a couple of pieces if he would pay for the shipping. He agreed to do this.
I took the time to carefully package the steel and then stood in line at the Post Office to mail the steel to this person. I sent him the tracking # and asked that he let me know when he got the steel. According to the Post Office, the steel was delivered, but this person not only didn't let me know he got the steel, he has never paid me for the postage like he promised to do.
I know he got the steel, he posted a picture of the finished blade on Blade Forums. He is alive and well, he regularly posts on this forum.
For me the broken promise is more important than the price of postage which I think was around $20.00.
Is that the new normal?
 
The first time I used Bos, I felt a little weird them not charging me......
But then they had screwed up some of my blades so I thought Ok.

Then the bill came a few weeks later, and I felt off again, paying for damaged goods.



Personally I want to pay, and get my work done correctly. Just get it all over, right away.
 
I hope not.
I have found the knife community, both knife makers and knife collectors, to be an upstanding group of people that can be trusted with just their word. I've only had a few sour interactions.
It would be a shame if that were changing for the worse.
 
Tom, I often send work to Peters' for heat treatment. One time my credit card number changed while they were doing the work. They made sure to get the billing taken care of before releasing it to the courier.
Then you've still got a few rare people like Paul Long who will tend to ship out the leather work with a bill. (I usually pay him before I receive it to avoid dragging it out or having loose ends)
 
DevinT said:
Somewhere along the way money has become a part of knife making. When you started, we made knives for the love of knives.
Click to expand...
Well, that's the only reason I've ever made knives, cause I sure as heck haven't made any money on the deal! Lol!

Tom, I sure am sorry that folks haven't been living up to their end of the bargain. It's definitely a "pay as you go" kinda world out there.
 
I somewhat recently used Bos Heat Treating for the first time. I felt like their communication could have been a little better. It took a fair bit longer to receive my blades then I was originally led to believe (an extra month, IIRC... ultimately not a huge deal). I was certainly surprised when I received a box of my heat treated blades in the mail, before I was even sent an invoice. I was even more surprised that there wasn't at least an invoice in the box of blades, but it was actually sent out a week or two after receiving my blades. I don't quite understand why you wouldn't a) email me an invoice, or b) put it in the box that shipping has already been paid for.

All in all, I was happy with the heat treat, and their prices can't really be beat. As for having to pay before hand, I was kind of surprised it wasn't already set up that way when I used them, but I guess it will be from now on. I don't send too many blades out for heat treat anyway, but I'll likely use them again if I ever need more blades. It does tend to suck when the few ruin it for the many though.
 
DevinT said:
The check is in the mail as they say. Sorry this guy didn’t pay. He probably owes lots of people money.

Somewhere along the way money has become a part of knife making. When you started, we made knives for the love of knives.


Hoss
Click to expand...
good thing- I can afford to do what I love to do! (barely😄)
 
That's why I consider this to still be a (self-funding) hobby. I still love making knives and definitely don't make enough to consider this a job (wouldn't pay the bills).

Someone told me "If you want to be a millionaire as a knifemaker, start with $2 million."
 
I miss guys like Pop's (Jim Poplin). I would call him up and either him or Kay would answer the phone right away. You would tell him what you needed, he would make some suggestions if he had a better idea or something new you might like, and he would ship it out in a day. The bill would either be in the box or come a few days later.
Today, companies want your card on file so they can charge you before shipping, and YOU to be responsible for lost packages or damaged items that they shipped.
 
DevinT said:
Somewhere along the way money has become a part of knife making. When you started, we made knives for the love of knives.


Hoss
Click to expand...

Some of us still do. I don’t understand what’s become of this, but the culture makes no sense to me. Knifemaking is far too important to be diminished by money. Everyone wants to be known as a knifemaker. I just want to make knives.
 
Tom Lewis said:
I first started sending blades to Paul Bos heat treating in the late 1970's. At that time they would heat treat the blades, send them back to me and then a couple of weeks later I would get a bill which I always promptly paid. (By the way, they have always done an excellent job for me.)
Just recently I got a notice from Bos heat treating that they were changing the way they did business. Now a person sends the blades to them, they send a bill to the knifemaker and when the bill is paid they heat treat and return the blades.
The reason for this change is pretty obvious. Evidently some people were not paying their bills so now the heat treating service must be paid for before they will do the heat treating.
Is that the new normal?
Over a year ago I had a similar experience. A member of this forum was looking for some 203-E steel. I had some I was not using so I offered to give him a couple of pieces if he would pay for the shipping. He agreed to do this.
I took the time to carefully package the steel and then stood in line at the Post Office to mail the steel to this person. I sent him the tracking # and asked that he let me know when he got the steel. According to the Post Office, the steel was delivered, but this person not only didn't let me know he got the steel, he has never paid me for the postage like he promised to do.
I know he got the steel, he posted a picture of the finished blade on Blade Forums. He is alive and well, he regularly posts on this forum.
For me the broken promise is more important than the price of postage which I think was around $20.00.
Is that the new normal?
Click to expand...
Hey Tom, I thought I had mailed you a check, I am so sorry that it didn’t arrive and I’m happy to take care of it and get you paid for that postage. I really appreciated you sending that piece of steel for me to test out and I’ll have to send you a blade I make out of it soon. Definitely don’t want you to feel like I broke a promise, I appreciate this community and everyone’s generosity. On the heat treating note I just got blades back from a different company and they collected payment after the blades were done being process but before they shipped. I’ll send you a email about the postage and make sure I still have your current address.
 
as others have said it is sad but the few screw it up for the many... i have used Bos forever sending 30/50 blades or blanks to be done at a time
always liked the service.. getting each blade Rockwell checked made me happy to know they check every one..
i guess the "Old Ways" are becoming (Gone) really sad... but im always happy to pay to play... i asked for it and ill happily pay for it to be done..
the funny thing is i have 2 ovens that i can heat treat with... just easier to send it in to the pro and be done with it .. they do this for THEIR LIVING..
so they keep up on all the best ways to do it.. foil /argon/oil for quench/straightening/cryo/rc checking ..
if i had to buy a dewar for the cryo and a Rockwell tester ill spend several thousand. .
and still have to learn to use it safely i just spend that money on heat treat instead..
 
I use Bos as well and send them 40-60 blades a year. It has always been bill afterwards. I usually just leave a CC with them and then it's just handled without me having to remember to pay. If I have a question, I just call and talk with Paul F. If a blade has an issue you can send it back and he'll try and fix it or he's included a note saying there was a warp or whatever.
 
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