Is this worth refurbishing? Plus estate sale finds!

[Veruschka]

Like many of you, I have been in pursuit of a good axe for a long time now. I had my heart set on a Husqvarna Carpenter's Axe, only to have that dream dashed when I realized nobody will ship to us. Either that, or it's outrageously expensive (nearly the same as the item itself!). Our local hardware stores don't carry brands like Council Tool or Husqvarna, so I had resigned myself to scouring garage sales and the like. Antiques up here are also outrageously expensive, and often picked over. Today, however, I struck gold! Or...steel. You know.

A local antique dealer was holding an estate sale this morning and I managed to find some interesting things.

From left to right:
-Aluminum drinking cups marked "Wear-Ever, made in USA"
-Old tobacco tin
-Folding "Valley Saw" from San Jose, California. It's still sharp and lighter than my Corona saw!
-Nicholson Mill Bastard file; some rust, but still usable
-My favorite, a Plumb 1.6 lb hatchet

I also picked up a very beefy axe head that was laying in the corner, covered in rust. I couldn't see any markings, but I just had to find out what was under that rust, so I took it home and gave it a vinegar bath and a gentle scrub to find the words: "Kelly Axe and Tool, Charleston WVA, Forged Steel." That axe is nearly 90 years old!

And boy, is it heavy. I haven't had a chance to weigh it yet, but it's perhaps four pounds. It's those huge gouges in the bit that are worrying me though. I'm sure the temper goes back pretty far; they usually do on these old axes. But is it worth it to try and get them out? How would I even go about doing that? I'm afraid I don't own a belt sander or anything like that; mostly hand tools. Please let me know if you all have any ideas!

Awfully fat cheeks there. What do we think? A splitter or a feller with some heft?

And here's the Plumb with the handle taken out. There was a lot of hardware and garbage crammed into the eye, so it wasn't too difficult to pull the thing out. It's pretty heavy for a hatchet, about as heavy as a Gransfors Bruks small forest axe. Hmm...maybe a 19 inch handle for it?

Anyway, I hope you all find that interesting. Let me know if you all think it's possible to get those gouges out of the Kelly.

 

[quinton]

Very possible, the bit is nearly full on the Kelly.

 

[quinton]

Don't try to "sharpen the gouges out", file or grind the bit edge until they are just gone then sharpen the bit.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yup. Grind/file directly into the edge to remove the chips, then rebevel and hone. An angle grinder with a flap disc might be helpful in this case since a belt grinder isn't available.

 

[Hacked]

Yup, plenty of life in the Kelly, and the cheeks are proper not fat. It's a felling axe for sure.

Long handled hatchets were popular at one point in time with handles ranging from 16" - 24" certainly not a new idea.

Here's what a 19" handle looks like on a regular old hatchet. Yes it works great! Next up I'll be trying a 24" out, just because.

 

[garry3]

Verushka, when I see chipped bits like that rather than rolled edges its a pretty good indication that the bit will be on the harder side, which I prefer. I think you will be really pleased with it.

Hacked, if you use them handles like a hatchet(one armed), I would like to hear your take on the longer haft. I seem to hit diminishing returns when I get to long. A boys axe on a longer hatchet handle or an old house axe can certainly rival the performance of a boys axe.

 

[Hickory n steel]

Like many of you, I have been in pursuit of a good axe for a long time now. I had my heart set on a Husqvarna Carpenter's Axe, only to have that dream dashed when I realized nobody will ship to us. Either that, or it's outrageously expensive (nearly the same as the item itself!). Our local hardware stores don't carry brands like Council Tool or Husqvarna, so I had resigned myself to scouring garage sales and the like. Antiques up here are also outrageously expensive, and often picked over. Today, however, I struck gold! Or...steel. You know.

A local antique dealer was holding an estate sale this morning and I managed to find some interesting things.

From left to right:
-Aluminum drinking cups marked "Wear-Ever, made in USA"
-Old tobacco tin
-Folding "Valley Saw" from San Jose, California. It's still sharp and lighter than my Corona saw!
-Nicholson Mill Bastard file; some rust, but still usable
-My favorite, a Plumb 1.6 lb hatchet

I also picked up a very beefy axe head that was laying in the corner, covered in rust. I couldn't see any markings, but I just had to find out what was under that rust, so I took it home and gave it a vinegar bath and a gentle scrub to find the words: "Kelly Axe and Tool, Charleston WVA, Forged Steel." That axe is nearly 90 years old!

And boy, is it heavy. I haven't had a chance to weigh it yet, but it's perhaps four pounds. It's those huge gouges in the bit that are worrying me though. I'm sure the temper goes back pretty far; they usually do on these old axes. But is it worth it to try and get them out? How would I even go about doing that? I'm afraid I don't own a belt sander or anything like that; mostly hand tools. Please let me know if you all have any ideas!

Awfully fat cheeks there. What do we think? A splitter or a feller with some heft?

And here's the Plumb with the handle taken out. There was a lot of hardware and garbage crammed into the eye, so it wasn't too difficult to pull the thing out. It's pretty heavy for a hatchet, about as heavy as a Gransfors Bruks small forest axe. Hmm...maybe a 19 inch handle for it?

Anyway, I hope you all find that interesting. Let me know if you all think it's possible to get those gouges out of the Kelly.

What I think is that you should take that Nicholson mill bastard and put it to use on that axe head.
File the bit down first then reprofile it, it may end up kinda thick but will make a great splitter.

 

[grafton]

There is no reason to have to resort to just having a "splitter" when you come across an axe in this condition. Like others said, just carefully grind or file down the bit until you are just past the chips. Then re profile the bit by using a file to remove steel behind the edge. It will take some time but it is necessary to get the cheeks as thin as it should be just behind the edge. Mark the cutting edge with a sharpie and make sure you are not removing material from the edge, but in the cheek area behind it. Use an axe edge gauge to help determine when you have it thin enough to suit you then work on sharpening the edge. If you just work on the very tip of the bits cutting edge on an axe and not behind the edge, thinning the cheeks, you will always have a stubby axe with too thick of a bit.

 

[Veruschka]

Don't try to "sharpen the gouges out", file or grind the bit edge until they are just gone then sharpen the bit.

Yup. Grind/file directly into the edge to remove the chips, then rebevel and hone. An angle grinder with a flap disc might be helpful in this case since a belt grinder isn't available.

If you just work on the very tip of the bits cutting edge on an axe and not behind the edge, thinning the cheeks, you will always have a stubby axe with too thick of a bit.

Thank you all for the great advice! Looks like I have some work to do

What I think is that you should take that Nicholson mill bastard and put it to use on that axe head.

My thoughts exactly! As rusted up as they are, I can already see these Nicholsons are of much better quality than the no-name file I have been using.

Next up I'll be trying a 24" out, just because.

You should! If you get a chance, you ought to do a post about it. I can get my hands on a 24'' boys axe handle much easier than a 19'', so it would be nice to see how it handles (no pun intended). I really enjoy customizing tools to fit my own needs. This was my first attempt at making a crooked knife from a Mora ferrier's knife:

It's a little clumsy to use, but it works. I tried my hand at a little ornamental carving on the top--it's supposed to be an owl. A little gopher-like, I think

This piece of oak is kiln-dried, I discovered, and probably treated with some kind of chemicals. It was quite difficult to carve and would splinter or crumble rather than curl. Very frustrating. Since then I've focused on sourcing my wood myself from local forested areas. We have a lot of paper birch in our area, and it's a pleasure to carve!

 

[Veruschka]

Verushka, when I see chipped bits like that rather than rolled edges its a pretty good indication that the bit will be on the harder side, which I prefer. I think you will be really pleased with it.

Hacked, if you use them handles like a hatchet(one armed), I would like to hear your take on the longer haft. I seem to hit diminishing returns when I get to long. A boys axe on a longer hatchet handle or an old house axe can certainly rival the performance of a boys axe.

I think I will be too, thank you!

And by "diminishing returns" do you mean that the performance of the axe worsens with a longer handle? I suppose if you have a lighter head on a longer haft it starts to resemble more of a tomahawk, and you need more energy to accomplish the same task. With a heavier head and a shorter handle as you are saying, the weight of the head would do the work.

I saw a thread that cooperhill did on his Plumb--mine looks very similar, and was of similar weight, but the handle was much shorter, about 15''.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1066567-Plumb-USA-quot-House-quot-axe

This fuzzy chart from the "Axe to Grind" manual shows some of the Plumb models. I believe mine may also be a house axe.

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm99232823/images/fig021b.jpg

 

[Hacked]

Hacked, if you use them handles like a hatchet(one armed), I would like to hear your take on the longer haft. I seem to hit diminishing returns when I get to long. A boys axe on a longer hatchet handle or an old house axe can certainly rival the performance of a boys axe.

In the case of the one above I'm using it either one handed or two. The handle length is very similar to my hammer and so it feels fine to me one handed. I also left the haft thicker throughout so I have the option to choke up on it. I found myself using it two handed more often and in that case the handle which ended up at closer to 18" after hafting feels a little cramped but still works well. This is why I want to try a 24" since that is the next size up available. I'm guessing it will end up closer to 22" when done and will be more usable in two handed use. Time will tell, but I do know for a fact that once upon a time axes were available in these dimensions and there must be a reason for that.

 

[grafton]

Small vintage camp axes were available with handle options in the range of 16" to 24" but if you look at original examples you will see just how incredibly slim they were. Putting a new production handle of similar length on a hatchet head will not give you anywhere near the same thing. A major thinning operation is needed on the order of something close to half of the wood removed. Both the Marbles camp axes and the CAC axe are good examples of this. I don't believe they were longer so much for two handed use as they were for increased performance with one hand. Older examples look more like miniaturized axes in scale compared to a modern hatchet and they were described as such in advertisements. More modern examples have scaled the head down but missed the boat on the handles, shortening them but not reducing other dimensions proportionally. This results in an unbalanced tool that to my eye lacks both function and grace. That being said, I am sure that what a person likes and finds "perfect" in terms of balance and handling varies.

 

[garry3]

I think I will be too, thank you!

And by "diminishing returns" do you mean that the performance of the axe worsens with a longer handle? I suppose if you have a lighter head on a longer haft it starts to resemble more of a tomahawk, and you need more energy to accomplish the same task. With a heavier head and a shorter handle as you are saying, the weight of the head would do the work.

I saw a thread that cooperhill did on his Plumb--mine looks very similar, and was of similar weight, but the handle was much shorter, about 15''.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1066567-Plumb-USA-quot-House-quot-axe

This fuzzy chart from the "Axe to Grind" manual shows some of the Plumb models. I believe mine may also be a house axe.

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm99232823/images/fig021b.jpg

The house axe's from Plumb are listed as being 2 1/4lbs. I believe your axe would be what they called a Hunter's, 1 3/4lbs on either a 14" or 16" handle.

By diminishing returns I mean that it no longer becomes an efficient tool for me. I believe a hatchet is a one handed tool and when I start getting much past 18" or so it is time to increase head weight rather than use a longer handle.

 

[garry3]

In the case of the one above I'm using it either one handed or two. The handle length is very similar to my hammer and so it feels fine to me one handed. I also left the haft thicker throughout so I have the option to choke up on it. I found myself using it two handed more often and in that case the handle which ended up at closer to 18" after hafting feels a little cramped but still works well. This is why I want to try a 24" since that is the next size up available. I'm guessing it will end up closer to 22" when done and will be more usable in two handed use. Time will tell, but I do know for a fact that once upon a time axes were available in these dimensions and there must be a reason for that.

I think you will be much happier with the 24" haft. I believe it changes it from a hatchet to an axe.

 

[Veruschka]

The house axe's from Plumb are listed as being 2 1/4lbs. I believe your axe would be what they called a Hunter's, 1 3/4lbs on either a 14" or 16" handle.

By diminishing returns I mean that it no longer becomes an efficient tool for me. I believe a hatchet is a one handed tool and when I start getting much past 18" or so it is time to increase head weight rather than use a longer handle.

Yes, I think you're right about my axe. I think I will hunt around for handles and see what I can come up with! Whatever size it ends up being, I can see it as a trusty friend already.

 

[Hickory n steel]

I think you will be much happier with the 24" haft. I believe it changes it from a hatchet to an axe.

That's the way I see it, I'd prefer a 20"-22" handle officially turning it from a long hatchet into a small axe. I still plan on getting a 28oz ( 1-3/4lb ) riggers axe and hanging it on a 22" curved handle.
To make it I'd just buy a real fat full size axe handle, that way I can cut it down and have room to create a new shoulder after removing over half of the material from the rest of it.

 

[Grimalkin]

how heavy was that plumb? I hung a 1.75lb national type pattern on a 24", that ended up being 23", its my favourite axe right now, its just a great length. I also hung a 1.5lb kelly on a 19" handle, while I can also use it with 2 hands, there is a major difference adding 4 more inches to the length.

Beavertooth has a 24" that I used FYI.

 

[Veruschka]

how heavy was that plumb? I hung a 1.75lb national type pattern on a 24", that ended up being 23", its my favourite axe right now, its just a great length. I also hung a 1.5lb kelly on a 19" handle, while I can also use it with 2 hands, there is a major difference adding 4 more inches to the length.

Beavertooth has a 24" that I used FYI.

My scale measured it at 1.6 lbs without the handle. I do like the 24'' handles--they have a good feel to them! Before I found this Plumb, I was eyeing a boy's axe at our local hardware store. I came to find out it was made in India, however, and the bit was quite soft. Do you have any pictures of your Kelly?