Is Two-Piece Handle for Hidden Tang a Bad Idea?

Joined
Apr 5, 2024
Messages
65
I haven't done any hidden tang knives before, and I don't have a drill bit as long as my tang is (I mostly have stubby bits). The blade tang is 5/8" wide, 5/32" thick and about 4" long and I'm thinking of just carving out a pocket the same size as the tang and gluing it all together. Is that a bad idea? This is a test knife, but I'd like to also learn the right way.
 
I've done a few...they work well. You will need a mechanical fastener, so add a hole somehow. A hand drill and concentration will work.
 
I do frame hidden tang handles a lot. Micarta or G10 for the "frame" that the tang goes into, then epoxy your scales to the tang. I grind notches into the tang and then use JB Kwik Weld to attach the handle to the tang, or you can do pin holes in the tang so the epoxy makes its own pin. I tried to remove a kitchen knife handle I made and attached with just JB Kwik Weld, no pins, no grooves, etc and cracked up the micarta ferrule and the handle didn't budge. I've batoned a 3" Elmax blade with the G10 frame handle installed with JB Kwik Weld to split down red oak before with no issues. Your's is similar with the mortised tang construction and should be pretty strong!
 
You can inlet both sides, only one side, or use a three-piece construction adding a frame around the tang of a third piece that is just a tad thicker than the tang (frame handle). All work very well. If using good epoxy and a good fit, mechanical fasteners are not absolutely required, but common practice is to use one, two, or three pins/rivets/bolts. In some cases, the cause more trouble than they are worth.
Tang holes should be about twice the diameter of the pins/rivets/bolts used. This allows for pushing the handle tight against the guard/bolster and for a little misalignment in drilling. Drilling the tang the same as the rivets is going to cause curse words later on.

1) To get ready for the handle, HT and finish all sanding and shaping on the blade. Remember to drill the tang holes before HT. Even if not using pins, holes in the tang are a good practice.

2) Tape the blade up with blue painter's tape to keep it clean of epoxy and cover the semi-sharp edge.

3) Cut the handle block in half as cleanly as possible. A table saw works well. If using pre-cut scales this is already done.

4) Sand the mating surfaces FLAT. Use a granite surface plate or a sheet of 1/4" glass with a piece of 120 grit sandpaper taped on it to sand the mating surfaces. Sand in a slow figure-8 pattern. No need for finer sanding than 120 grit. It provides the perfect gluing surface.

If doing a frame handle skip to step 7).

5) Mark the tang position on the inside of both pieces (or only one side) and mortice out the channels. You can do it on both sides or just one side. Test the fit by clamping the scales together and inserting the tang in the channel. You want a smooth slide in-out ... not too tight not too loose.
Once the channel is done, clamp the two halves together and finish the end where it will meet the guard or bolster. (If no guard or bolster, just sand them even).

6) Hopefully, you already drilled the tang with a hole (or holes). If not, drill the tang with a hole using a carbide drill bit. Again, you want the holes in the tang about twice the diameter of the pin/rivet size you will use. On two-piece handles on kitchen knives, I install two or three Corby bolts.

7) Fit the blade with any guard or bolster that you will use and then place one scale on the tang. If these will be soldered, do that before assembly of the handle. Push one scale down snug against the guard/bolster and clamp in place. Mark the holes in the tang on the wood. Remove the scale and drill the center of each tang hole mark for the rivets/pins. Use a drill bit smaller than the pin/rivet/bolt size. I use a 1/8" bit that matches the 1/8" hardwood dowels I use in the next steps.
Remove the knife blade and clamp the scales together and drill through the second side on the first hole only. Rubber bands work well here as clamps. You can also tape the scales together with electrical tape. Tap a hardwood dowel through the holes (taper one end to make it go through easier). If there is more than one pin hole, drill the others, inserting a dowel as you drill them.

Once the handle is assembled with the dowels, cur them off flush with the scales. A tiny dot of glue on each side will keep them tight. SHahe the hand;e as desired and sand to 400 grit. Sand the end where it will meet the guard/bolster flat. If there will be no guard/bolster, sand end to the desired shape. Sand or buff to the desired finish. Tap out the first dowel and redrill to fit the pin/rivet/bolt. Temporarily install that pin and drill the others, installing the pins as you go.

8) Test fit everything one last time before final glue up. If all is good, glue the handle up with slow cure epoxy. 24-hour epoxy is best.
If using Corby bolts, the bolts are the clamps. If using pins use light weight clamps. Don't use C-clamps or super strong spring clamps. All you want to do is hold things in place snug while the epoxy curses. A gluing jig that pushes the handle into the blade/guard is a good thing to build. It also makes handling and cleaning the blade during glue up easier.

9) Wipe off any drips and such with a paper towel followed by a paper towel dampened with denatured alcohol. Alcohol is the correct solvent for uncured epoxy. Cured epoxy can be removed with acetone.

10) Set the knife aside, butt down, and monitor the glue pot to see when the epoxy starts to gel. When the epoxy in the mixing pot starts to gel, check the knife for any squeeze-out and wipe off with a paper towel and alcohol. Set aside to cure overnight.

11) Once cured, drill the handle through the holes on the one side using the same size bit as before. Then re-drill the holes for the pins/rivets/bolts/.

12) Finish the handle, un-tape the blade, and sharpen your knife. Make sure to do all sanding and buffing before you un-tape the blade.
 
Wow - thanks all for the feedback. The tang does not have a hole in it, but it is not hardened (it isn't particularly soft either ... but I think I can put a hole through it). I knew that handles on Japanese knives/swords were constructed like this, and had intended to try to add a hole through the tang to put a pin in.

The original knife was a thrift store butcher knife that I re-profiled and (crudely) ground - a shop knife for sure.
My original plan was:
* put a hole in the tang
* make the blocky form of the handle, chisel out the pocket for the tang and mark where the hole should be through the handle
* drill through the tang hole and one side of the handle
* glue everything together
* drill through the existing half hole to the other side
* taper the holes slightly and peen a pin in there
 
Sounds like a good plan. Be sure to make the hole bigger than the pin.

An easy way to relieve the handle slot is to use a Dremel tool or flex shaft with a 1/4" ball burr. The slot doesn't have to be pretty or precise except where the opening is at the end. The epoxy will fill all the spaces and grooves inside the handle. I use a file to get the opening at the end a perfect fit.
 
Ok Stacy - you mentioned that you drill a hole *smaller* than your pins, and that you use 1/8" hardwood dowels. What size pins do you use typically? You have never led me astray before, but drilling the tang hole larger than the pin seems a bit strange to me - my very limited experience with knife making started with putting new scales on some slipjoint knives. There I would use razor blades as wedges to separate the knife parts (springs, blades, scales, etc.) cut new scales, glue them on, but everything was re-drilled with a 5/32" bit to allow for 5/32" pins, peen them, etc., ... are holes hidden tang knives that different, or is it because the holes are hard to line up once you glue the handle back on?
 
Because it's hard to line up where the hole will be exactly. You want the second part of the handle flush with the first part, and the first part firm against the shoulders of the tang
When you do scales you can use the holes as a reference, you can't really do that with the hidden tang. Also a hidden tang should be tapered in two dimensions, compared to a full tang that is tapered in one dimension at most and often not at all.
Some people oversize the hole and fill it with a softer metal
 
The smaller hole is usually 1/8", sometimes 3/16". I use dowels with tapered ends that I tap in the holes. Test your dowels and find the right drill bit to make a snug fit.

I almost always use Corby bolts, but for the pre-assembly stages I sometimes use the dowels when I have to finish the front of the handle before glue-up.

The same technique works well for shaping and finishing scales for full tang knives. On those, you have to finish the front of the handle before glue-up or you will never get it shaped and polished without ruining the blade.

As to why the larger tang hole:
1) You may end up sanding the front of the handle to some degree in fitting to a guard/bolster. That will change the position of the tang holes to the handle holes. A little extra will save you trying to oval out the tang holes so the pins will go through.
2) I don't care who you are, you can't easily drill exact size handle and tang holes and get them perfectly aligned. When assembling the knife, you may end up with the pin not going through and trying to hammer it through. That often ends up in disaster. With Corby bolts getting three holes aligned perfectly is even harder. The extra room is essential.
3) The extra room allows the handle to be pushed forward tight against the guard/bolster. A gap at that point shows that the holes were too small to allow adjustment.
4) The epoxy will fill all voids and the space around the pin.

TIP:
On all assemblies using dowels or pins - TAPER the ends of the dowels or pins so they go through the handle without catching. Otherwise, you stand a good chance of splitting the handle or breaking out a piece as the pin exits the other side. Also, pins and rivets used for final assembly should be a snug but not tight fit.
 
Back
Top