Is Victorinox "moribund?"

M

MG_Saldivar

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While browsing Equipped.org's article on the 2007 SHOT Show, I came across the following comments in the article's review of Victorinox and Wenger products:

What can one say about moribund Victorinox except that they seem to be forsaking the knives that built the company. They would rather sell you watches, luggage, clothing, packs; almost anything but knives. Well, if you insist… It's been years since we saw much of anything new in their Swiss Army Knife line beyond minor variations on some existing models. It would seem, from all appearances, that they have lost their passion. This year they had a single new knife of note. Pretty sad, truth be told...

[Article goes on to describe the Vic Rescue Tool.]

While Victorinox has hardly done anything much with their knife line for a couple years, their sister company Wenger, and former competitor, is moving at the Swiss equivalent of warp speed. It's been two years since Wenger introduced their innovative Evolution series with ergonomic handles that broke the mold for a Swiss Army Knife. Now they've taken another big step with the EvoGrip series that incorporate textured rubber inlays into those same handles. From my perspective, this is another huge leap in functionality and safety...

The new EvoGrips and Ranger series show that while they may be slow learners, the Swiss can be taught new tricks. While there's still a long ways to go before Wenger, or its parent Victorinox for that matter, enters the 21st century with regards knife design and features, Wenger at least is making progress that was unthinkable just a few years ago.
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I don't know too much about Doug Ritter but I feel I've learned a lot from Equipped.org, and I really respect his pro-knife owner activism. So, I wanted to give his views some consideration even though my initial reaction was a kneejerk pro-Victorinox-ism.

Then I thought about how impressed I've been by my Evo S17 with locking blade, and the impressive-seeming Ranger series (I haven't bought one yet so I can't claim personal knowledge). I don't think Ritter is criticizing Victorinox's quality, which I think most of us will agree is consistent with what it's been in decades past, but I have to admit, it does seem that Wenger is introducing more innovative features...

What do y'all think?
 
I think that Victorinox has most of it's bases already covered plus a lot of new trinkets. Wenger has to do more than sell watches, maybe they can create a new breed of quality SAKs.
 
Last I heard Victorinox wasn't the company about to go bankrupt, and Wenger was bought up by Victorinox, so "moribund" certainly doesn't apply to the company's existence.

There is some truth to Wenger's innovation, though. Victorinox has made innovations in a different way, not necessarily to an outdoors or survival mold (swissmemory, clocks, led lights). Most of their models have tested well over time, so why fool around with a winning formula? Perhaps if they made smaller sized (84, 91 mm) locking knives, they would get the approval of equipped.org.
 
popcornpicker said:
...Wenger has to do more than sell watches, maybe they can create a new breed of quality SAKs.
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Wenger has the new Rangers coming out at the end of August.

http://www.wengerna.com/browse/browse.jsp?cat_id=1&sub_cat_id=85

I've got my eye on the Ranger 75.

16306E.jpg
 
MG_Saldivar said:
Good point. I don't believe Doug Ritter ever met a slipjoint he liked. :D
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Yep.

"Folding knives with no positive locking mechanism are downright dangerous. You surely don't need a serious knife cut on your hand or finger(s) while trying to survive. Even experienced woodsmen are regularly injured by non-locking folding knives. It is not uncommon in these instances for the cut to go all the way down to the bone." --Doug Ritter
http://www.equipped.com/devices10.htm

Ultraman said:
Last I heard Victorinox wasn't the company about to go bankrupt, and Wenger was bought up by Victorinox, so "moribund" certainly doesn't apply to the company's existence.
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Dying is one defination of "moribund" but I think stagnant was the meaning that Doug intended.

With their current lineup (SwissTools, SwissTool Spirits, Swiss army knives) I think Victorinox can afford to be "stagnant".
 
Ritter is out to lunch with that idea that "Folding knives with no positive locking mechanism are downright dangerous". It's not as if slipjoints snap shut spontaneously. They have to be misused to perform that way. The argument reminds me of folks who insist Glocks are unsafe because they "have no safety" and are prone to accidental discharge. Which always magically happens when the user manages to have his finger somewhere within the trigger guard.

As far as any moribundity, I suspect there are quite a few cutlers who'd be quite happy to be as moribund as Victorinox.
 
Victorinox has so many models that a lot of them are practically variants of others. They overlap in size and functionality. They have been successful doing this. Their biggest hit was the ban on small pocket knives on aircraft after 9/11. That may have been what drove Wenger under financially, despite their innovations.

I like both companies' offerings, with a growing tilt towards the new Wengers. But Victorinox shouldn't be faulted for being so successful, they practically own their market. Why not use their powerful brand name to market other mid-class items?
 
Good point, Esav B. Besides, in all seriousness -- has anybody ever bought anything with the Vic logo that sucked?

Their LED lights have a good reputation over on CPF (one is on my "to buy next paycheck" list). A former girlfriend of mine owned one of their backpacks and it was fine. I've handled their wallets at stores and they seem fine. Vic is Vic.
 
One other observation I would make is how the comments by equipped.org ignore one fundamental shortcoming with Wengers (with all due respect): their steels don't stay as sharp as what Victorinox uses. I could never get the same edge on my Wengers as what I can get on all my Victorinoxes. If someone out there can explain what I'm doing wrong, I will be very grateful :) . Otherwise, I'll make the case that the Victorinox steel, craftmanship, and QA, is better. This might have changed when Victorinox bought Wenger.

In a survival situation, I would trust the Vic slightly more (forgetting all the internet pontification on how your mind is the best survival tool, blah blah blah) based on the steel they use and the construction. No doubt both will do the job, but there's the slight chance something might break, or the edge might get dull more easily. Just an opinion. :D
 
ultraman this is my experience as well and one reason maong others that i favor vic

i bought much vic clothing a few years back and it was pretty good stuff-good quality and design-

and i have vic and wenger brand watches -all tell time nicely but the vics have features and designs i prefer-two of my wenger watches no longer glow very well- one wenger still s glows very well- all of my vics glow (this happens to be a feature i like in a watch)

the vic name overal is pretty good-but i stick to knives now-the quality is still first class -try saying that about a product that been around for as long-
my vics from the late 60's early seventies and the modern ones are indistiingusihable imho when it some to construction and materials

moribund-i hope not-bt recently i was at rei looking at ....the saks -the display case was nearly empty,and there was a selectoin on cards-but everything was full retail...and in this regard....i thought at full retail there is a lot of competition....when you buy em discounted....well they are a great buy-but $44 for a camper or huntsman or whatever i saw struck me as ....high ...my point is that there are other sexy tactical knives, innovative shapes and the like that could easily grab someones eye...for me there is nothing as nice or as practical or as innocuous as a sak...but im preaching to the choir id guess....
 
stevedenver: I have not found the Wenger watches bad, but they seem to be cheaper where I'm at :thumbup:
 
I think diversifying the products offered was the smartest thing that Victorinox ever did. That way when the end comes and all knives outside the kitchen are banned they can still make a living selling fine luggage, clothes, watches, umm kitchen knives and other accessories.

All jokes in bad taste aside they do make great products across the board and selling more than just knives will help them stay in business and keep making fine knives and serious profit. I know many non-knife people that consider Victorinox high-quality and that own many V'nox products but none of their knives.
 
supratentorial said:
Dying is one defination of "moribund" but I think stagnant was the meaning that Doug intended.

With their current lineup (SwissTools, SwissTool Spirits, Swiss army knives) I think Victorinox can afford to be "stagnant".
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Agreed. I think equipped.org meant that Victorinox was stagnant this year in terms of new production knives or designs, since the site only makes mention of one new knife (Vic Rescue). The thing is, Victorinox has a very stable and "mature" base of products that don't seem to need improving (at least in the manufacturer's eyes?), hence not pushing the need for Vic to release 10+ new models every year or so. =)
 
After reading the Equipped.org site I think Mr. Ritter's complaint is with the 91mm and smaller Vic knifes because they don't lock. I agree that most slipjoints are safe when used in by people accustomed to knives. However, in a survival situation, with an inexperienced knife user, slipjoints are more dangerous. I work as a volunteer for local search and rescue and diseaster relief teams and I don't know how many times I've seen inexperienced knife uses stab or jab at something with a non-locking SAK. I've also treated some of the cuts they sustained. Misuse yes, but inexperienced users make mistakes because of lack of knowledge and experience. Mr. Ritter's site is not just for us but the general public such as pilots who may not be used to knives.

Is Victorinox moribound, maybe, maybe not but they are very slow to introduce new ideas. Remember how long it took for the original Swisstool to come out after the Leatherman explosion? Conservative may have been a better word. However, I would LOVE a Vic soldier with a frame lock and SV30 steel.

Finally, I think the Wengers have improved lately. The springs seem stronger and I think even the steel holds an edge better. I have another one on order and we'll see how it works.
 
I wonder if the negative tone of the article has anything to do with Victorinox declining to have any involvement with AKTI?
 
Vic will be slow to introduce new 'improvements' in their knives. They always have been on the conservative side. I suppose they don't feel a burning need to add frame locks and sv30 steel to models which have seen world-wide use with few complaints.

I agree 100% with Gadgetman7 about the slipjoints. The word 'slip' always stands out and reminds me of the perils involved with such a knife configuration. If you grew up with knives and had sufficient training, you'd be ok. A novice user is another type of animal. Locking knives are safer for the majority of nimrods that venture into the bush.
 
both of them are constantly in the process of working on new knives, but we swiss, are not that fast - but good!

one thing we work on is the coming damascus version of the soldier knife.

but its correct that vic is an tiny bit old fashioned, some there still bellive you should carry theyr sak on an chain, not an clip (my clipdesign is sold to them) etc etc.

and the law here in swiss prevent making say assistend opener sak, one thing that i personally work on with my +B brand. it will be made outside of swiss for 100% cause banned by stupid swiss bureocratics who dont now the diffrence between and auto and assistend opening knife:jerkit:

we swiss try to do ouer best!

+B
 
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