Is ZDP-189 really that horrible for a spyderedge endura 4 EDC?

TrailWolf

TrailWolf

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Apr 13, 2009
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Well, I pulled the trigger on a fully serrated Endura 4 in ZDP-189 a few days ago as it was a great price and I've heard that ZDP was a rather premium steel.

With that said, I've been doing research over the past day on ZDP-189 and I was just BLOWN AWAY at all the negative sentiment vs VG10! From 99% of the threads I've read, on my syderedge endura 4 I should expect the teeth to chip on anything harder than cardboard, quick corrosion if I cut a piece of fruit, and that I'll have a hell of a time sharpening it back up without diamond sticks...

It appears that ZDP on a spyderco only makes people happy when they send the blade out to get totally reground to be a monster slicer - not on a stock spyderedge EDC blade.

With that said, I dont want to do a reprofile or have this as a specialized slicer - I want an all around EDC blade. I dont abuse my knives, but if I need to cut some material harder than cardboard I dont want to worry about tooth damage, I dont want to worry about pitting when I cut an apple and I sure as hell dont want a hard time sharpening.

So.... my question to you you fine folks, should I opt for a VG10 endura 4 or is the sentiment out there on ZDP just blown out of proportion by steel snobs? :D

Thanks for the help!

.
 
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I don't know much about steels, but for a fully serrated edge, I wouldn't want a super hard and not as tough steel. Serrated blades hold an edge longer anyways, so a moderate hardness steel like VG-10 works great.
 
I think you are only seeing the bad, not the good with the ZDP. It's a wonderful steel. The Endura is one of my all time favorites at any price range. I've carried one since 92.

If you are scared of ZDP's reputation then by all means get the one that makes you happy.

I have ZDP Enduras in PE, and SE. The comments about the steel make it seem much worse than the reality.

Your needs and expectations are the ones that matter though. Because I've never had any of the above troubles doesn't mean you won't.

I grew up preventing corrosion on my blades using carbon steel knives. Keeping ZDP corrosion free is easy for me.

I don't really use folders for extremely hard use so I've never had any failures of lock or blade. You? Who knows! Chances are though if you are going to have any of the above troubles you would have them with VG10, 154cm, ATS34, ATS 55, S30V, etc., etc.

Use the knife the way it's designed and you shouldn't have trouble. If you do, talk to Spyderco W&R and see if what you did is covered by warranty. Good luck, Joe
 
Don't freak out just yet. ZDP is great blade steel. I've not used it in a serrated blade but I can tell you that it is the cat's meow in my PE Caly jr. If you have (or plan to aquire) a Spyderco Sharpmaker kit, then relax. You have the means of maintaining that edge. It's gonna take more effort than various other blade steels, sure. There's no question. This is some HARD steel. I don't think steel snobs are giving ZDP a bad name, I think it's more than that... This stuff takes EFFORT to maintain. People like freebies. They'd rather have a blade that you can get back to factory sharpness with 25 strokes on the 'maker. Ain't gonna happen with ZDP. No sir.

In regards to chipping, most of what I've read (and experienced) is at the micro level. Little missing chunks only visible under intense scrutiny (or a visual aid like a magnifying glass). And this seems to calm down after a few Shaprmaker sessions. Maybe they get the edge too hot on the belt before it leaves Seki City?? Dunno. I can see where this chipping might be more pronounced on a serrated blade as the chipping would tend to occur on the tips of the serrations and thus be very visible.

Spyderco introduced serrated blades to the pocketknife world back when stainless blade steel was, well, not as good as it is nowadays. It held a useable cutting edge a lot longer than a plainedge blade and Spyderco had the added plus of being able to sell you a means to maintain that serrated edge. I heard about a local farmer that had a serrated Worker. He sent it off once a year to have Spyderco sharpen it. He paid the five or ten bucks (whatever it was then) and got the knife back for another year of hard use. That was Gin-1 bladesteel. You have ZDP!! Think about it. He had Gin-1 and his serrated knife lasted 12 months of FARMER TYPE useage.

As for corrosion, reports vary wildly on this. Personally I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary on my Caly Jr. Keep the blade wiped down, especially after cutting a grapefruit or something acidic and you shouldn't have any serious probs. I've never experienced any corrosion on my Caly jr but it's a sandwiched blade so there's not much ZDP surface area in comparison to the knife you're getting.

Remember, your internet searches are yielding the very vocal. One guy with a problem shows up on five search engines and sixty people chime in with "oos and aahhhs". Give ZDP a shot in the real world and see how you like it. I did. And I'm thinking ZDP is the best blade steel Spyderco has offered to date. At least it's the best that I've personally tried. (I missed out on S90V, D2 and M2). In fact, I think Spyderco often runs their blade steel a mite soft to avoid chipping problems. While this is usually a "noble" effort it can make for a nasty wire edge during sharpening. Luckily the Japs won't let Spyderco have much say-so on the hardness of ZDP. They pretty much gotta take what they get. Which is paying off big for us. No NASTY wire edge, no edge rolling. If some minor micro chipping in the first few months of ownership is the price we gotta pay to avoid that crap, then where do I sign? Cheers.. :confused:
 
zdp-189 is an awesome steel. I like it much much more than vg-10.

Its so hard it just cuts with an extra crispness that most other steels cannot produce.
 
zdp-189 is a terrible, dangerous steel, and if you use it you will die.
 
My only objection to ZDP in my serrated Endura4 was that the one I got was ridiculously thick. I admit I'm an old geezer, I grew up with carbon steel slip joints in my pockets, but come on. The blade on that Endura is as thick at the back of the edge bevel as the pen blade on my Case whittler is at the spine. It hasn't had a chance to chip because I can't stand to use it. It's like using an axe. Sal did say they were having a bit of trouble with the maker back then, so maybe that problem has been resolved now.

That said, anyone who tells you VG-10, ATS-55, ATS-34, 440C, 420HC, AUS-6, AUS-8 or H-1 serrations won't chip is lying to you. I've chipped all of those and a few mystery steels as well. As for being hard to sharpen, the Byrd Duckfoot diamond sharpener is not too expensive, portable and easy to use for serrations. ZDP does not impress diamond. Neither does any other steel I've found.
 
1. Get some diamonds, they work fast on everything.

2. It will hold an edge significantly longer than VG-10.
I recently did some leatherwork with a VG-10 blade where I usually use ZDP-189, VG-10 became unusably dull where ZDP-189 never did.

3. I have a serrated VG-10 blade, with chips in it. I have to wonder if steel type really has all that much to do with it.
 
I've had a SE Delica in 189 ZDP steel for about two years now. No problems with chipping that I can see. I tend to cut a lot of waxed cardboard used in the Flora industry. The serrated edges hold up really well. As a previous poster said - If you have a Sharpmaker you will be fine. I sharpen mine about once every 3 months and that is probably more than needed.
 
yablanowitz said:
ZDP does not impress diamond. Neither does any other steel I've found.
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periodic_table_of_elements_DragonFo.jpg


that's only because Sal Glesser hasnt released the Dragonforce mule team yet.

on a serious note zdp-189 is a fine steel, and spyderco is treating it at like 64 rc, which is several points lower than william henry treats his. its hard to compare since william henry knives arent beaters in any sense of the word, but I think the softer heat treat should mean that you wont have any issues.
 
Hi guys - thanks for the reassurance and personal experiences.

My zdp endura arrived today (along with a cricket and hawkbill ladybug [KILLER!!!]) and it is just a monster - sharpest blade I've owned. MUCH bigger than I imagined too - definitely not edcable in NYC.

Thanks to our dachshund we had some extra carpet laying around - the endura 4 with zdp just zipped through it where my vg10 SE delica was noticeably different (though still made quick work of it). I am blown away and am looking forward to just using it - WORRY FREE :D

Damn these things are addictive - the zdp endura makes 5 in the last week.
 
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AF said:
I got one recently and it doesn't fit that description.
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I'm glad to hear that. Sal did say they were working on the problem. 0.065" behind the edge is annoying as all get out, at least on a knife.
 
just curious on sharpening - with ZDP and serrations should I alternate sides on the white corners or do 5 swipes on serrations then 1 on the flat side...?

Thanks again!
 
VG-10 is my favorite all-around hard use steel. Excellent balance between edge holding and ease of sharpening, and seems to be very stainless.

ZDP-189 take a wonderful edge, and will hold it about four times longer (in my experience) than VG-10 doing the same work. It is harder to sharpen. I was surprised to find it does develop a light patina when used to cut acidic food, but doesn't corrode nearly as much as high-carbon steel. The edges on my knives have made hard contact with some pretty hard surfaces, including steel and ceramic, and haven't chipped yet. I have an Endura and Delica in ZDP-189 and I'm proud to carry them (and use them) every chance I get.
 
Got the SE ZDP-189 Delica. Used it on fruit without any pits, rust or even spots. Wipe it off if you use it for something like that and make sure to oil the pivot at least.

With my 701 pro-files it sharpens right up, just don't let the edge go really dull (it will still sharpen up, but you may get frustrated by the amount of time it will take you.)

Haven't used it on something harder than cardboard, so can't comment on chipping.
 
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