Isn't SOG lagging behind other mfgs?

H

huugh

Joined
Jul 16, 2005
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In the past SOG used premium steels, titanium, carbon fiber etc.
We don't see much of it today :( (yes, I'm aware of Arcitech, but competition in customs price range is more than tough)

Why don't you make e.g. Spec-elite with steel liners, G-10 and ATS-34 or VG-10?

Bowie went from SK-5 to AUS-8. Why?

Why Kraton only on Tomcat3? Why no carbon fiber, wood, g-10 or micarta? Is it too much to ask?



I'd love to see SOG folders competing with BM Blue class and "higher-end" Spydercos (like Military, Manix or Caly3). :(

Is there a hope?
 
I suspect because the market is broader for lower priced knives.
The Trident was always AUS-8, only the original Bowie was SK5, and people always asked for a stainless version...
The knife knuts are in the minority.:(
I agree with making classes. I think that's where they are going with the Fusion line.
As in any business there is a plan to make money, and it's all about the plan. :)
 
I think they have a ratio of 1 : 2 or 3.
Meaning that for every 1 good knife they make with good materials they have about 3 others on there line which are just eh. Example is the vulcan vs the muscle car knife, and the kilowat
 
It's probably because they aren't exactly manufacturing their own knives.
That in it self has placed a limitation as to the steel types used for foreign manufactured models.
And quite frankly, when a company goes OEM, there isn't much they can do about knife designs other than what's offered by the manufacturers for the season.
 
GIRLYmann said:
It's probably because they aren't exactly manufacturing their own knives.
That in it self has placed a limitation as to the steel types used for foreign manufactured models.
And quite frankly, when a company goes OEM, there isn't much they can do about knife designs other than what's offered by the manufacturers for the season.
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I'd like to disagree.
SOG CAN specify steel AND design, and I am fairly certain they do.
Be it Korea, Taiwan, or Japan, pay the price and they'll build what you want.:)
 
a lot of sogs make good cheap users . but they are like any other knife company. they have their top end expensive knives , and then they have there good affordable users . steel snobbery? well thats another story alltogether , although we all want the best steel for the money,different steels are better for different applications.
 
SIRGALANT said:
... steel snobbery? well thats another story alltogether , although we all want the best steel for the money,different steels are better for different applications.
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Absolutely right!:thumbup:
Not only that, but we all want the best edge holding, chip resistance, while being easy to sharpen, rust resistant, etc... things that are often well... difficult to combine... that's point 1.

Point 2 is that realistically, and few here will really admit it, but often it's want rather than need... Most of our "use" would not be able to differentiate between properly heat treated steels. As someone said 99% of people are not hardcore users... that 1% can pay the price for the exotic steels.
 
As most of you know I really like Sog knives. I own at least 6 different models of their knives. I have learned not to trust the lock on the zytel Flash II's as I can make it fail with little pressure. If Sog would do a little engineering on the piston lock it wouldn't do this. The shame is I have carried this knife for 6 month before I used it in a way to make it fail. I tried my CS large vaquero, Spyderco Native, and Spyderco Endura 4 and the locks held on these knives when dong the same task. I have decided not to buy the flash II anymore and to only use it in situations that I would feel safe to use a non locking knife. I wished I would not have recommended this knife so much to other people. I still love Sog but not the flash II.
 
Bobby B said:
Absolutely right!:thumbup:
Not only that, but we all want the best edge holding, chip resistance, while being easy to sharpen, rust resistant, etc... things that are often well... difficult to combine... that's point 1.

Point 2 is that realistically, and few here will really admit it, but often it's want rather than need... Most of our "use" would not be able to differentiate between properly heat treated steels. As someone said 99% of people are not hardcore users... that 1% can pay the price for the exotic steels.
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If it should be about knife I really needed, small SAK would still be overkill :)

Look what Spyderco is putting out: ZDP-189, BG-42, S90V, CPM-D2, not to mentions usage of carbon fiber. Or should I mention kershaw and his usage of Titanium and ZDP-189? :)
 
To my knowledge, SOG designs their own knives and specifies the steel and other specs in the manufacturing process. They try to provide the best product at a price that they feel people can afford. I like em!

I don't believe that SOG visits a factory that manufactures knives and looks at their current products and says.... lets call that one the Blink.

I have a Flash II also. I believe I chipped the blade the first day I used it. Oh well.... $50. My problem with knives is I misplace them. I can't find my Flash II now....Can't find my Blink.... Can't find my Twitch II. They're hiding somewhere; they'll turn up.
 
huugh said:
If it should be about knife I really needed, small SAK would still be overkill :)
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And for some people it is.:rolleyes:

huugh said:
Look what Spyderco is putting out: ZDP-189, BG-42, S90V, CPM-D2, not to mentions usage of carbon fiber. Or should I mention kershaw and his usage of Titanium and ZDP-189? :)
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True enough, but in what quantities, and where do you buy them? Typically in more "specialized stores". Your average Walmart, KMart, etc won't carry them; the target customer wouldn't spend that much for a knife. Think of the majority of pople you know who are NOT knife knuts... would they spend $100, $200,... $400+ on a knife?:confused:

Personally I love the more exotic stuff too, but my first "good" user knife was an AirSOG from my dad. AUS6, but a good profile, and it came with me on many camping trips. I lost it working on insulation in the attic (I'll have to try to find it again), but some kind soul sent me another as a gift.:D

Point is: not expensive, but a good affordable product for the mass market.
 
GIRLYmann said:
Strangely there still isn't any official comment on this.
Chris@SOG, what's the final word dude?
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No comment from me because I don't read the forums on the weekend. Sorry, I have other things I like to do from time to time. So you want the final word from me on this, here it is.

We do all of our own design work for our knives. We do not rely on other manufactures, referred to as "OEM," or designers to come up with our designs. Yes, we do produce knives in the US, Japan, Taiwan, and China but that does not mean they are someone else's designs. Spencer creates everyone one of the knife designs that SOG produces from the Micron to the Arcitech. He has had some collaboration from time to time, such as with Blackie Collins and as everyone one here knows Robbie Roberson, but all of our designs are still created in house. We do not use some off the shelf design from a manufacturer as you are implying. We go to them and tell them what to make.

As to the question as to why we are not using as many high tech materials. Well we are trying to appeal to a wide audience by using more accessible and affordable materials. Do you think the average person that goes into a Sprotsman's Warehouse to buy his knife knows the difference between AUS8 and S30v? We do still make knives will higher end components and actually are introducing several knives in the coming months with VG-10 blades and other high-end materials, keep a look out because they are coming. Don't forget about the Vulcan (VG-10 blade) or the Arcitech with its San Mai VG-10 blade, titanium bolsters and liners.

In response huugh’s question about the Bowie going from SK-5 to AUS8. Well it did not change materials as you suggest, if you go and look we still have the original SOG Bowie in SK-5, the current ones are serialized and come with a Walnut presentation box. We did introduce a new version of the SOG Bowie, the Bowie 2.0 which has the same look as the Bowie but is crafted using AUS8 and has a TiNi coating instead of the bluing. This makes the knife more affordable and something that people are more likely to use.

I hope this answers you questions.

Thanks
Chris
 
Chris@SOG said:
No comment from me because I don't read the forums on the weekend. Sorry, I have other things I like to do from time to time. So you want the final word from me on this, here it is.

...

As to the question as to why we are not using as many high tech materials. Well we are trying to appeal to a wide audience by using more accessible and affordable materials. Do you think the average person that goes into a Sprotsman's Warehouse to buy his knife knows the difference between AUS8 and S30v? We do still make knives will higher end components and actually are introducing several knives in the coming months with VG-10 blades and other high-end materials, keep a look out because they are coming. Don't forget about the Vulcan (VG-10 blade) or the Arcitech with its San Mai VG-10 blade, titanium bolsters and liners.

In response huugh’s question about the Bowie going from SK-5 to AUS8. Well it did not change materials as you suggest, if you go and look we still have the original SOG Bowie in SK-5, the current ones are serialized and come with a Walnut presentation box. We did introduce a new version of the SOG Bowie, the Bowie 2.0 which has the same look as the Bowie but is crafted using AUS8 and has a TiNi coating instead of the bluing. This makes the knife more affordable and something that people are more likely to use.

I hope this answers you questions.

Thanks
Chris
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Hi Chris,
thanks for taking time to reply.

I think it's dangerous to underestimate even a lay customer: sure they may not be aware of what does S30V or AUS-8 mean but then comes the question: why he should buy a SOG in Sportsman's Warehouse when there are $5 Chinese knockoffs readily available?
And why is Spyderco producing ($40) VG-10 and S30V Native (sold in Walmart) then? There is a market for these knives.

Why don't make Tomcat3 with G10 or Micarta handles? Why Kraton (reference to the past is nice, but Kraton is what effectively killed sales of Spyderco Stretch)?
I think SOG should withdraw from excessive use of Zytel (or other FRN) and Kraton atleast with "higher end" models (e.g. Tomcat and 20CV Team Leader). Micarta, G-10, carbon fiber or stabilized wood would suit them much better.

(Arcitech is nice but I don't think it will sell well. Too high a price (too close to customs or Sebenza (actually if SOG should sell @ full MSRP like CRK then it would be even more :eek:))
 
From a consumer's (me) point of view. The lack of better steel/handle material is a bit of a turn off. Everytime I go to the store to buy the spec elite, I came out with a different knife instead because I can't justify spending 90 bux on it, while I can get a Kershaw or Spyderco with much better steel for 50-60 bux.
 
I like SOG, and I think they make some great knives and tools, and am planning on buying one of the powerlocks this week, but with the exception of the Vulcan, I just don't think SOG folders (I don't know much about fixed blades) are of the same value for the dollar as other companies. I can get a similar design, more familiar lock, and better steel and handle materials as any SOG for the same price or cheaper in another brand.

On the other hand, I think the Vulcan is a great step for SOG and I'm excited to see what knives SOG has planned that will up the ante.
 
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