Issue - new BK&T Machax blade coating

[DM Driscoll]

Hi all,

Question: just how tough is the black epoxy-like coating on the new BK&T knives (say in reference to the original Machax's bluing)?

Answer: not very!

Last month I delivered a shiny new production Machax to my friend & we in the course of admiring it's many wonderful features, used it to split some firewood for his living room fireplace. After using another piece of wood as a mallet with the Machax in splitting quartered logs, I was fairly shocked to note that the coating had been worn off the edge & along the shoulder of the primary bevel (the 2 contact surfaces when splitting). The wood was northern Vancouver Island red/yellow cedar & douglas fir - fairly soft, knot-free, straight-grained & easily split wood. As he lives/works near the Pacific coast, the integrity of the coating is significant in retarding rust. By contrast, the black treatment on my original Machax has proven very durable to such abrasion over many years of use/abuse.

Comments welcome....

Regards, Dudley Driscoll

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[Will Fennell]

Mr Driscoll,

Thanks for being an original BK&T customer, and helping a friend become a NEW BK&T customer. We appreciate your faith in our products.

Now on to your question.

Since older Machaxes were finished in different ways, I am assuming by your description that you have a black oxide finished model.

Black oxide (aka bluing), is a controlled rusting process that is more wear resistant than the epoxy powder coating used in our version of the BKT knives.

However, just as the later variants of BKT knives were powder coated (battleship gray), we have opted to use that coating as well, for several reasons.

1)It offers better corrosion resistance than black oxide.
2)It looks better, in our opinion.
3)And is a process that we have quite a bit of experience with.

In a nutshell, the textured powder coating offers a nice measure of corrosion resistance that the oxide dip does not, but may succumb to minor flaking/chipping in high wear areas.

Black oxide is not a coating, but a finish. It cannot chip, crack, peel, etc.
It does, however expose the open pores of the steel to the elements and allows rust to form on carbon steel quite quickly.

We have thoroughly tested the new BKT models
and find that their fit, finish and functionality is far superior to the Blackjack produced versions, and in many ways better than the "original" hand ground, hand finished versions originally sold by Ethan.

Ethan also agrees.

We have made substantial improvements in
1)handle fit/finish and material.
2)Overall grinding quality and sharpness.
3)Quality of steel used (old BKT's were a mishmash of 4140, 0170-6,440a, 440C)
4)Incredible improvement in quality and design of the sheath.

Unlike The "old" BKT or Blackjack produced knives, we always have a steady flow of BKT product, as opposed to the old method of batch production by BJK (usually once a year)

We appreciate your concern, but when looking at the big picture, we strongly feel that powder coating is a better blade finish.

Oh, and the price of the "new" BKT, in most cases is the same or less than it was 10 years ago.

What do you think of the rest of the knife, performance wise?

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Driscoll, I have not used any of the Becker line but have seen the exact same behavior on every blade I have used with a similar coating. From the cheap Ontario's to the high end like the Busse Basic.

It stays on fairly well in regards to cutting rope and soft vegetation but hard chopping and/or twisting in wood removes the coatings quite fast. The Ti Nitride coatings are much more durable.

Will, while the new coatings might have better corrosion resistance NIB, since it comes off readily on the type of work that blades like the Machax will be used for, you end up comparing a bare blade against the black oxide. Isn't this a clear win for the blade oxide?

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 09-09-2000).]

 

[Will Fennell]

Cliff-

Not exactly.
remember that black oxide will tend to attract corrosion over the entire existing finish, while powdercoating will usually only allow corrosion where the finish has been penetrated (cracks, chips, wear).

So, in our experience there is no perfect finish.

The Titanium carbonitride coatings are great-we have used them extensively on the quick action folders, however they would add about $30-40 to the retail price of the BKT knives due to their size.

We didnt feel that the advantage, real or percieved was worth the added expense.

As you know, an $8 dollar tuff-cloth works very well to keep carbon blades corrosion free and that is what we recommend to our customers.

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Will :

powdercoating will usually only allow corrosion where the finish has been penetrated (cracks, chips, wear).

Yes, but the problem is that rust goes under the coating in those areas and then pops it off rapidly enlarging them. So basically you end up just having a bare steel blade.

an $8 dollar tuff-cloth works very well to keep carbon blades corrosion free

Well if this is the case then the coating is not functional anyway, as even bare 1095 steel can be kept rust free with regular applications of a decent oil.

And in fact the coating may be keeping the TC (or whatever) from protecting the steel as I don't think whatever was used would go through the powder coating.

Thanks for the cost detail on the TiN, I would be curious if it was offered as an option how popular it would be.

-Cliff

 

[Will Fennell]

Cliff-

Since Tuf-Cloth creates a microcrytalline
barrier, it would protect a coated blade from rust as well as an uncoated blade.
The dry film protectant undoubtedly would "seal" the coating as well as bare steel keeping rust from forming.

The Vapor deposition finishes are great finishes. The best of these for corrosion inhibition in our experience is Chromium Nitride(siilver). Corrosion seems to attack Black-Ti pretty easily enough in marine environments and will creep up the uncoated edge-under-the black-ti, This was well chronicled in Tactical Knives when a large production company came out with a popular tactical folder in Black-Ti. That coating option was was since discontinued.

We may experiment some more with different finishes doen the road, but we aim to keep the BKT line affordable for all, and that is one big reason we like our present coating.

You should try a BKT, see how our pwedrcoating fares compared to some of your controls and post your results.

Until then, comparing our type of coating to someone elses is like comparing your favorite brand of peanut butter to one your havent tasted-there are variables to powder coating that determine its durablity, like grade of coating, cure time, spray time etc.

Give one a try. We have a great warranty.

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Will:

You should try a BKT, see how our pwedrcoating fares compared to some of your controls and post your results.

Yes, I definately think I will. Thanks for the information about the Ti coatings.

-Cliff

 

[Kodiak PA]

I think with the initiation of products like Tuf-Cloth this is really a non issue.

Just got my Campanion today and this knife begs to be used and used hard. I think someone would lose out on the joy of this tool if they treated it with tender hands. So what if the black coated epoxy wears in heavily used areas? This is a carbon steel blade--meant to be used and even abused a bit.

Work the knife hard, wipe it with TC...watch the epoxy abrade a bit and bask in the satisfaction of a knife that will last.

YMMV

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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
JKM-Chai