Issue with DMT EEF and alternative suggestions?

TheDandyLion

TheDandyLion

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Mar 27, 2013
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I recently got myself some DMT stones as a Christmas gift, and love them. The only issue is that the EEF (Extra Extra fine, 8000 grit) leaves just as coarse as a finish as the Fine (600 grit). While I realize in performance this is irrelevant, it's hard to part with my polished edges. Before it's mentioned, I did allow the stone a break in period in which I used it extensively to grind in new edges on a couple new knives (Spyderco Military, BK-9, condor Machete, and I reground an Endura to Scandivex). This was a lot of work, especially for the finer stones. I also have tried using feather weight touches, so fine the blade hardly touches the stone and I still get coarse scratches all over the edge. My question here is what can I do to this stone to make it give me a polish (I would even settle for a milky finish like a 1000 grit whetstone)? If it's a lost cause with this DMT stone, what alternatives are there out there that can give a mirror edges to hard steels that don't require a water soak or frequent lapping?

I really like the coarse/fine DMT but I'm just looking for something that can give me a light polish (doesn't have to be mirror). Any suggestions? Or any ways to get my DMT to act like the 8000 grit I want it to be?
 
the stone hasn't broken in yet, when it does it will still leave scratches but they will be finer. to get a mirror you need to use a progression where the finer stone erases the last coarsest stones scratch pattern. I go c, f,ef, eef and then to the 1micron paste on a leather strop
 
Take a close look at it and consider returning/exchanging it for another. I recently picked up an EF that had what appeared to be foreign bits in the plate and a lot of materials that were (appeared to me) to be out of spec abrasive. There were yellowish regions about the size of a Capital 'O' with foreign objects in the center scratching the tar out my tools. It looked to me like the plating bath was contaminated or the filtering system wasn't running properly.

Was prepared to do some breaking in, but it was working like a Coarse plate and wasn't confident I could turn it around without harming it in the process. Exchanged it for another that looked much better right out of the package, gave it a very light rub down with the fine side of a silicon carbide combination stone and a ton of water and dish soap. Broke right in and is working great.
 
TheDandyLion said:
I recently got myself some DMT stones as a Christmas gift, and love them. The only issue is that the EEF (Extra Extra fine, 8000 grit) leaves just as coarse as a finish as the Fine (600 grit). While I realize in performance this is irrelevant, it's hard to part with my polished edges. Before it's mentioned, I did allow the stone a break in period in which I used it extensively to grind in new edges on a couple new knives (Spyderco Military, BK-9, condor Machete, and I reground an Endura to Scandivex). This was a lot of work, especially for the finer stones. I also have tried using feather weight touches, so fine the blade hardly touches the stone and I still get coarse scratches all over the edge. My question here is what can I do to this stone to make it give me a polish (I would even settle for a milky finish like a 1000 grit whetstone)? If it's a lost cause with this DMT stone, what alternatives are there out there that can give a mirror edges to hard steels that don't require a water soak or frequent lapping?

I really like the coarse/fine DMT but I'm just looking for something that can give me a light polish (doesn't have to be mirror). Any suggestions? Or any ways to get my DMT to act like the 8000 grit I want it to be?
Click to expand...

Shapton Glass stones and Naniwa Professional stones are great options
 
In my experience you can't, with diamond plates, jump over the grits. What i mean is you have to use each grit, XXC to XC to C to F to EF to EEF. The diamond plates leave deep scratches. Their efficiency comes from that particularity with, as always, a drawback. For higher grits (upon the 600 DMT grit) i do prefer waterstones. The ones recommended by Deadboxhero. Or the Shapton pro line. Many other waterstones brands, many options.

dantzk.
 
dantzk8 said:
In my experience you can't, with diamond plates, jump over the grits. What i mean is you have to use each grit, XXC to XC to C to F to EF to EEF. The diamond plates leave deep scratches. Their efficiency comes from that particularity with, as always, a drawback. For higher grits (upon the 600 DMT grit) i do prefer waterstones. The ones recommended by Deadboxhero. Or the Shapton pro line. Many other waterstones brands, many options.

dantzk.
Click to expand...
I do have each grit, Coarse, Fine EF, and EEF
 
So, if i understand, it works from C to EF and you get trouble with the EEF which brings you back to the finish you get with the F. Even considering the EEF is not broken in it shouldn't happen. Send it back, DMT will check the plate in regards of their specifications. I can't see any other cause but a flaw in what happens there. Hope it will be solved.

dantzk.
 
dantzk8 said:
So, if i understand, it works from C to EF and you get trouble with the EEF which brings you back to the finish you get with the F. Even considering the EEF is not broken in it shouldn't happen. Send it back, DMT will check the plate in regards of their specifications. I can't see any other cause but a flaw in what happens there. Hope it will be solved.

dantzk.
Click to expand...
The F is just as coarse
 
Is it the continuous or interrupted plate? It certainly shouldn't be as coarse as the 600, by any means, but I know that other users have observed problems with the EEF interrupted plates. The interrupted surface causes ridges in the edge finish, which, at that grit size, effectively negate any refinement done by the EEF abrasive.
 
Trout Hound said:
Is it the continuous or interrupted plate? It certainly shouldn't be as coarse as the 600, by any means, but I know that other users have observed problems with the EEF interrupted plates. The interrupted surface causes ridges in the edge finish, which, at that grit size, effectively negate any refinement done by the EEF abrasive.
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Too heavy pressure causes that, on the interrupted surface. I've done it to some of my edges some time back, but I was exerting a lot more pressure on diamond hones then, and hadn't yet figured them out. The edges of the 'holes' could definitely do such damage if pressure is heavier than ideal. This is a difference with the interrupted plates, but they aren't doomed to doing such damage by design.

My own EEF DiaFold has almost a 'shine' to it, and feels essentially buttery-smooth on most blades I've honed on it, and even when running my fingers across it. It's sometimes difficult to believe it's capable of removing metal at all, because it looks & feels very slick; but the quick generation of swarf on the surface proves it works.


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Too heavy pressure causes that, on the interrupted surface. I've done it to some of my edges some time back, but I was exerting a lot more pressure on diamond hones then, and hadn't yet figured them out. The edges of the 'holes' could definitely do such damage if pressure is heavier than ideal. This is a difference with the interrupted plates, but they aren't doomed to doing such damage by design.

My own EEF DiaFold has almost a 'shine' to it, and feels essentially buttery-smooth on most blades I've honed on it, and even when running my fingers across it.


David
Click to expand...

Ah, good to know. So then, the interrupted surface only creates ridges in the edge finish if the pressure is too much? Thanks.
 
Trout Hound said:
Ah, good to know. So then, the interrupted surface only creates ridges in the edge finish if the pressure is too much? Thanks.
Click to expand...

That's what I've consistently learned & relearned, with diamond hones in general. Every time I've assumed I was going 'light enough' with pressure, I've always eventually learned they work better (at refining edges) going even lighter. On a hone like the EEF DMT, I'm essentially allowing the bevels to 'glide' over the abrasive; if there's any sense or feeling of the edge conspicuously catching or grabbing the hone, chances are, the pressure should be lighter. The feel is a lot like attempting to hone an edge on a smooth, polished sheet of glass; but, it's still removing metal very aggressively for the small grit size.


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
That's what I've consistently learned & relearned, with diamond hones in general. Every time I've assumed I was going 'light enough' with pressure, I've always eventually learned they work better (at refining edges) going even lighter. On a hone like the EEF DMT, I'm essentially allowing the bevels to 'glide' over the abrasive; if there's any sense or feeling of the edge conspicuously catching or grabbing the hone, chances are, the pressure should be lighter. The feel is a lot like attempting to hone an edge on a smooth, polished sheet of glass; but, it's still removing metal very aggressively for the small grit size.


David
Click to expand...

That's very good to know, as I had initially stayed away from interrupted surfaces for this reason. I assume that the continuous surfaces still provide a slightly more consistent edge finish?

I am already learning this about pressure with my new set of DMT plates. I spent some time on the clip blade of my new Case the other night, and took the time to really refine the edge on the coarse stone. After awhile, it was really frighteningly sharp, and was slicing newsprint with exceptional ease. I could have easily called it a day at that point without ever even touching the F or EF, so I think I'm getting the hang of the light pressure (partly thanks to members of this forum).
 
Trout Hound said:
Ah, good to know. So then, the interrupted surface only creates ridges in the edge finish if the pressure is too much? Thanks.
Click to expand...

It can also have this effect if you are forced to run the tool dead lengthwise for too many passes in the same spot. Eg if the edge runs right up to a pronounced ricasso and you want to keep it straight you might see a pattern form. Otherwise, light pressure and you'll never know the difference.
 
About the hole catching edge:
It's also going to be more pronounced when reaching belly and the tip. The straight portion is easier and when getting to belly & tip, pressure needs to be lighter as the actual impact to the edge multiplies due to smaller contact area.
Don't ask me how I figured it out :o.
 
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