Italian 4max Detailed Teardown

Agith · Apr 16, 2018

I also posted thus in the general forum, however since this IS the cold steel subforum, it seems only fitting to post it here as well! It has also been reformatted to hopefully address some concerns.

I also recently contacted Andrew Demko regarding the hole by the blade. So I'll be including his response here:
"If you have a USA made 4MAX then a .187" (3/16) pin should fit. However the intention in production was not for that use so a little adjustment to the hole or chamfering may be required. Also the Italian made knife is slightly under .187" and would require drilling/reaming as I dont think a smaller pin with ball detent is available. " - Andrew Demko

Post #1 and #2 will be all pictures. Posts #3 and #4 will be sectioned pictures

So I have decided to clean my 4max, and since there is no detailed overview of each of the components within a 4max, or a tear down at all from what I've seen. Since this is not necessarily a review, simply a parts overview, I am not sure if it belongs in the review section.
I will have two ways to view this. Either categorized by section, or simply as a "View all" style button.
ALL pictures

The Locking Mechanism - there is a comfortable gap between the lockbar and the blade when deployed, giving room for wear in

Teardown Overview - I'd like to make a brief note ,that the prybar in the upper corner was absolutely necessary in taking down this down. I did however, wrap it in tissue paper to ensure it wouldn't scratch the titanium liners!

The Hardware - There are three barrel screws for this knife which hold the spring in place (Barrel screws are all stonewashed). This means that they are under very high pressure loads since the spring on this knife is just a monster (we are talking pounds worth of pressure applied to the lockbar). The roughly 1 milimeter difference in barrel length for the upper screw really messed with me, as I accidentally dropped the tool mat and didn't realize the length difference. This resulted in the short barrel going in the wrong hole, and then 30 minutes of struggling to get the barrel out of the hole (as it was under high amounts of pressure)

The Pivot Screw - Seems to be made in house. Well machined! The pivot is also stonewashed

The Springbar and Backspacer

The backspacer -This backspacer has a notably disappointing segment where the interior is very rough. This caused gouges in the steel of the spring, which is somewhat disappointing. Spacer is stonewashed

The Spring - The spring is somewhat gouged, however this was likely due to the rough interior of the backspacer (Do note, the gouging on the spring looks worse than it is due to the grime)

Agith · Apr 16, 2018

ALL pictures continued

The Lockbar - Pretty cut and dry here. Has some machining marks on the grooves, however it fits the design in a weird way. Lockbar is stonewashed. Of note is the fact that my lockbar has the step down that the 1st generation 4maxes did.

The bushing, stop pins- (there are two, one for opening which is at the top, and one beneath it for when the blade closes. The lower pin does not penetrate through the G10), swivel pin (for the lock bar) and clip side scale (All came off in one piece, very tightly fitted into the g10. Swivel pin does not penetrate trough the G10 , only the titanium stonewashed liner. I do believe I unfortunately damaged the liner on my previous attempted to adjust the tightness of this blade. It appears that the tightness relies more on the tightness of the stop pin than the pivot itself

Presentation side Titanium Liner

G10 scale of presentation end- There is a metal cylinder fitted into the scale on the interior. I do not know the function.

The Pocket Clip - Surprisingly effective given the shortness of the clip. Likely due to the weight of the knife itself.

The Phosphor Bronze Washers- Note the ridges on the washers. I had to disassemble the knife twice. Once to clean, and then again to flip the washers. The ridges are favorable facing the blade. Ridges do not seem to be unintended, as they are uniform on both washers, with a distinct gap seperating them. I do not know their purpose beyond this (could be to elevate the washer by a very small margin to allow for oil to rest better between the blade and washer? Uncertain)

The blade! - The blade itself is well set up. There are no sharp edges to serve as fracture points on the lock interface. The cutting edge has held up very well. I did sharpen and polish it, however that is more due to preference than due to need. However the sharpening choil is not properly done. Sharpening resulted in grinding away parts of the shoulder since you cannot access the base of the edge without doing so. Coldsteel's CPM-20cv has very impressive so far. However I would like more time before I make a final statement on it.

And that is all! I hope you enjoyed the inside look! And if you have any questions about my experiences with the 4max up to this point, please let me know. So far, it has been a nice knife for those who want a fixed blade in a folding knife package. I have chopped, carved batoned and pried (wood, during carving and batoning), and found no need to adjust the tension at all. This is more likely due to the fact that the stop pin and swivel pin are ridiculously tightly fitted into the liners+scales. This however does mean that if you tighten the pivot too much, you may need to pry at the scales to get them to release the blade. Which is somewhat ugly if you ask me, but it isn't a matter which will come into play much.

Agith · Apr 16, 2018

SECTIONED OVERVIEW

The knife:

The Locking Mechanism - there is a comfortable gap between the lockbar and the blade when deployed, giving room for wear in

Teardown Overview - I'd like to make a brief note ,that the prybar in the upper corner was absolutely necessary in taking down this down. I did however, wrap it in tissue paper to ensure it wouldn't scratch the titanium liners!

The Hardware - There are three barrel screws for this knife which hold the spring in place (Barrel screws are all stonewashed). This means that they are under very high pressure loads since the spring on this knife is just a monster (we are talking pounds worth of pressure applied to the lockbar). The roughly 1 milimeter difference in barrel length for the upper screw really messed with me, as I accidentally dropped the tool mat and didn't realize the length difference. This resulted in the short barrel going in the wrong hole, and then 30 minutes of struggling to get the barrel out of the hole (as it was under high amounts of pressure)

The Pivot Screw - Seems to be made in house. Well machined! The pivot is also stonewashed

The Springbar and Backspacer

The backspacer -This backspacer has a notably disappointing segment where the interior is very rough. This caused gouges in the steel of the spring, which is somewhat disappointing. Spacer is stonewashed

The Spring - The spring is somewhat gouged, however this was likely due to the rough interior of the backspacer (Do note, the gouging on the spring looks worse than it is due to the grime)

Agith · Apr 16, 2018

SECTIONED OVERVIEW CONTINUED

The Lockbar - Pretty cut and dry here. Has some machining marks on the grooves, however it fits the design in a weird way. Lockbar is stonewashed. Of note is the fact that my lockbar has the step down that the 1st generation 4maxes did.

The bushing, stop pin (there are two, one for opening which is at the top, and one beneath it for when the blade closes. The lower pin does not penetrate through the G10), swivel pin (for the lock bar) and clip side scale (All came off in one piece, very tightly fitted into the g10. Swivel pin does not penetrate trough the G10 , only the titanium stonewashed liner. I do believe I unfortunately damaged the liner on my previous attempted to adjust the tightness of this blade. It appears that the tightness relies more on the tightness of the stop pin than the pivot itself

Presentation side Titanium Liner

G10 scale of presentation end- There is a metal cylinder fitted into the scale on the interior. I do not know the function.

The Pocket Clip - Surprisingly effective given the shortness of the clip. Likely due to the weight of the knife itself.

The Phosphor Bronze Washers- Note the ridges on the washers. I had to disassemble the knife twice. Once to clean, and then again to flip the washers. The ridges are favorable facing the blade. Ridges do not seem to be unintended, as they are uniform on both washers, with a distinct gap seperating them. I do not know their purpose beyond this (could be to elevate the washer by a very small margin to allow for oil to rest better between the blade and washer? Uncertain)

The blade! - The blade itself is well set up. There are no sharp edges to serve as fracture points on the lock interface. The cutting edge has held up very well. I did sharpen and polish it, however that is more due to preference than due to need. However the sharpening choil is not properly done. Sharpening resulted in grinding away parts of the shoulder since you cannot access the base of the edge without doing so. Coldsteel's CPM-20cv has very impressive so far. However I would like more time before I make a final statement on it.

And that is all! I hope you enjoyed the inside look! And if you have any questions about my experiences with the 4max up to this point, please let me know. So far, it has been a nice knife for those who want a fixed blade in a folding knife package. I have chopped, carved batoned and pried (wood, during carving and batoning), and found no need to adjust the tension at all. This is more likely due to the fact that the stop pin and swivel pin are ridiculously tightly fitted into the liners+scales. This however does mean that if you tighten the pivot too much, you may need to pry at the scales to get them to release the blade. Which is somewhat ugly if you ask me, but it isn't a matter which will come into play much.

unwisefool · Apr 16, 2018

Thanks for the detailed teardown and great pictures!

jbmonkey · Apr 16, 2018

really well done....but no pics and talk on the thumbstud? thanks.

WTF · Apr 16, 2018

Agith · Apr 16, 2018

jbmonkey said:
really well done....but no pics and talk on the thumbstud? thanks.

That is a very fair point. I took them off pretty quickly since they are completely in the cutting path of the blade, which is something I often see with Demkos. I completely forgot I had them! Unfortunately due to how tightly they were fitted, I was not able to pull them off without marring them up. But here are a couple of images anyway!

AF · Apr 16, 2018

Nice job!
You mentioned that tightening the pivot didn't tighten the action. I think it's possible that the ridges on the washers are the reason.

hermit dave · Apr 16, 2018

Thanks for doing this!
It looks like CS is going with an inset steel bar instead of a D hole to key the pivot pin.

Agith · Apr 17, 2018

AF said:
Nice job!
You mentioned that tightening the pivot didn't tighten the action. I think it's possible that the ridges on the washers are the reason.

I don't believe so. When the pivot is tightened fully, the scales are compressed together, and held in place by the stop pins. If you back off the pivot and make use of a lever to pry apart the scales slightly will then loosen the scales, and allow you to retighten the pivot to adjust the tension of the blade. I have never really seen that in another knife before.

unwisefool · Apr 17, 2018

Are you putting the thumb studs back on?

Agith · Apr 17, 2018

unwisefool said:
Are you putting the thumb studs back on?

I very much prefer them off. As I said,they get in the way of the cutting path. And I like the aesthetic of them off as well

F22shift · Apr 21, 2018

We’ll confirms that there is no Teflon washers which I suspected but seems CS didn’t know but Andrew did know.
The metal piece in the g10 is new. Is that to make a d shape to stop the pivot from spinning ?

Use a toothpick in the screw recess and bang out the thumbstuds. Repeat as necessary. No need to mar them.

I dremeled out and polished the choil to fix the grind. Used sandpaper in the backspacer recess.
Dremel polished every part in there including the washers haha.

BladeScout · Apr 22, 2018

Excellent walkthrough, Agith :thumbsup:

Italian 4max Detailed Teardown

sure sure