It's a Fake! Rip off copies.

[JohnR7]

I was looking at a Kershaw knife the other day and comparing it to it's rip off china copy. I noticed that the pattern on the handle was the same, they were identical, they used the origional to make their mold for the rip off copy. Actually, the copys are not that bad when you consider the price, because they start off with a good design. If you look at the little rip off copy of the spyderco, it is selling three for a dollar. But actually it is a good cutting knife. Or at least it can saw through a lot of stuff for a knife it's size and it's price. Because the origional design is very good. I just wonder why, even though it is against the law to use the spyderco name, they allow people to make a almost identical rip off copy and mass produce and sell them here in this country. Maybe it is who you know, because I have had knife shipments confiscated at customs and no matter how much I yell and scream, they did not give it back to me. They tell me you have to get a shipment pre approved before you try to bring it into the country if you want to be sure that customs will allow you to bring it in.

 

[u812]

Best I can understand China does not honnor our patent or trademark laws.
The only thing a company that is being ripped off can do is go after the ones who are importing them and then it only works if the ones that are haveing them made is based in the US.

 

[JohnR7]

Best I can understand China does not honnor our patent or trademark laws.

Unless your name is Bill Gates. The reason he is worth billions is because he steals from whoever he wants, but he does not allow anyone, anywhere to steal from him. The people in china know the laws there. After all, this is a country that if you get thrown in prision there you risk having your vital organs sold to the highest bidder for medical transplants. This is more a issue for customs and what our government will allow into the country and what they will not allow in. It is a question of why they confiscate my little $100 knife shipment, but they allow this other stuff to be brought in by the truckload. As a consumer I am all for low prices. But I just wonder why companys like spyderco and kershaw do not get better protection from our government for their knife designs.

 

[puukkoman]

Unless your name is Bill Gates. The reason he is worth billions is because he steals from whoever he wants, but he does not allow anyone, anywhere to steal from him.

Bravo.

Windows '98 = Macintosh '89



Peace.

 

[Psychopomp]

Best I can understand China does not honnor our patent or trademark laws.

That's not entirely true. There are copyright laws on the books in China. But the Chinese government doesn't actively enforce them, it's kinda like an honor system thing. There are people in the American manufacturing business that want the US and other governments to force China to enforce these copyright laws.

But doing so could have dire consequences on the Chinese manufacturing industry. I know some people think that would be a good thing. But it would't. If the Chinese manufacturing infrastructure fails, the world economy goes with it. America is too heavily invested in China to survive an economic collapse in China.

Don't take this as my trying to justify what goes on. I'm not. It's wrong and should be stopped. But as long as America has economic ties to China, nothing will be done about it.

 

[Juiceseller]

That's not entirely true. There are copyright laws on the books in China. But the Chinese government doesn't actively enforce them, it's kinda like an honor system thing. There are people in the American manufacturing business that want the US and other governments to force China to enforce these copyright laws.

But doing so could have dire consequences on the Chinese manufacturing industry. I know some people think that would be a good thing. But it would't. If the Chinese manufacturing infrastructure fails, the world economy goes with it. America is too heavily invested in China to survive an economic collapse in China.

Don't take this as my trying to justify what goes on. I'm not. It's wrong and should be stopped. But as long as America has economic ties to China, nothing will be done about it.

Not true at all, before Nixon visited China. The US was better economically, just ask any folk in their 50's or 60's age range who lived through the "old" days. This country does not need to trade with China or any country..........as the corporations lead you to think.

You trade what you can not produce in your country. Take Japan, for example, it relies on trade intensively because it lacks natural resources. It trades electronics, autos, etc......in exchange for rice and other agricultural foodstuffs, etc.........to "feed" themselves.

Some people might argue that they can buy cheaply made goods produced in China. Let us think about that for a second................ Is that like you are trading American jobs for little comfort of saving few pennies?......then what?.....If this style of job sell-out continues, I am afraid not many people have jobs and expendable incomes to buy that cheaply China made knife.

I am not trying to be political here, just that I want to point out what potentially can happen to the US economically.

Cheers,



Juice

 

[PerformanceFirst]

You also trade for things you can get cheaper by trading than by producing them yourself. I'm just spitting back what I learned in my economics class, not trying to argue or anything. This article explains what I'm trying to say in more detail:

http://www.globalization101.org/issue/trade/8.asp

Also this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

As far as rip offs of nice knives go, I'd never buy one. Even if the design is the same, I doubt most of them are of the same quality.

 

[Juiceseller]

You also trade for things you can get cheaper by trading than by producing them yourself. I'm just spitting back what I learned in my economics class, not trying to argue or anything. This article explains what I'm trying to say in more detail:

http://www.globalization101.org/issue/trade/8.asp

Also this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

As far as rip offs of nice knives go, I'd never buy one. Even if the design is the same, I doubt most of them are of the same quality.

These articles are what corporation economists want you to believe. Sure it is a quick and temporary fix for the consumers who want to pay less at Wal-mart or such sort of outlets as well as it would feed greedy CEO's who would line their pockets with left-over cash from cheap oversea labors.

Now look at what potentially can happened (or had happened) in America.............eventually all your goods (or most of your goods, that would include "essential" goods as well) are manufactured oversea. That would turn your country into mostly service-oriented economy......like working at a retail store like Wal-mart.

Smart economists know that you got to export more than you import (sell more, buy less) in order to keep your country economy healthy............if you keep buying cheaply China-made goods, no matter how cheap...........then you are NOT circulating money back into the community, then guess what?.........all will be poor, no matter how much money you saved.

Also, the money the China get from you.......will benefit not the poor Chinese, but it goes to help the goverment that is threatening Taiwan with the money it get from the US.

Cheers,



Juice

 

[PerformanceFirst]

These articles are what corporation economists want you to believe. Sure it is a quick and temporary fix for the consumers who want to pay less at Wal-mart or such sort of outlets as well as it would feed greedy CEO's who would line their pockets with left-over cash from cheap oversea labors.

Now look at what potentially can happened (or had happened) in America.............eventually all your goods (or most of your goods, that would include "essential" goods as well) are manufactured oversea. That would turn your country into mostly service-oriented economy......like working at a retail store like Wal-mart.

Smart economists know that you got to export more than you import (sell more, buy less) in order to keep your country economy healthy............if you keep buying cheaply China-made goods, no matter how cheap...........then you are NOT circulating money back into the community, then guess what?.........all will be poor, no matter how much money you saved.

Also, the money the China get from you.......will benefit not the poor Chinese, but it goes to help the goverment that is threatening Taiwan with the money it get from the US.

Cheers,



Juice

It may be of some discomfort to you that this is being taught as fact in public high schools then, or at least as a sound theory. To be fair, they did tell us about some instances of labor being brought back to the US because the cost of training workers elsewhere proved too high and the labor force was unreliable. They also noted that workers who are laid off because of manufacturing being shifted elsewhere are supposed to receive training at no cost to them for other jobs under some arrangement which I don't remember, though this doesn't work too well. If we need to export more than we import, we're screwed I think, at least with the way things are currently. Of course I hardly know anything about this subject.

 

[nozh2002]

The low price for Chinese goods is not because of low quality and less labor or cheaper labor. It is only due to unfair exchange rate which goverment set in a old communist way. Yuan is not free currency, it is not set by market - it is set like for example 1 to 10 when it should be 1 to 1.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3254393&postcount=136

So for all other world it is like playing with different set of score - like you have 6 for touchdown and they has 12 or 18 or even 60 for same. It is hard to win this way.

I think real price for labor in US less then in China for the same quality, due to more developed economy, but rules are different and it is impossible to win.

But, you can not blame bussineses to maximize profit - this is why they do exist. This is what Spyderco doing - I hope they reinvest this money in US manufacturing, at least have some control over what is going on there. It should be resolved on the state level - trade rules, special taxes etc. to set rule same for everybody. And as I understand Wight House already after it. And on consumer level - like I try to buy first "made in USA" things, even it is pricely (but sometime it is impossible). This way I can change corporation behaviour on maing profit this way - by minimizing this profit.

I have no problem with made in Japan, Europe, Taiwan etc. - they liberate their currency as I know.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[hardheart]

Labor is somewhere around 60% of cost to manufacture stuff. If it gets made in the US, it's gonna cost more ecause of miimum wage, standard of living, labor laws, etc. And someone is going to build/sell it cheaper to make more money. And then other people invest in foreign markets to get money back, cause the US doesn't exist in a 50 year old vacuum.

 

[nozh2002]

Labor is somewhere around 60% of cost to manufacture stuff. If it gets made in the US, it's gonna cost more ecause of miimum wage, standard of living, labor laws, etc. And someone is going to build/sell it cheaper to make more money. And then other people invest in foreign markets to get money back, cause the US doesn't exist in a 50 year old vacuum.

I doubt that in China labor is significantly cheaper. Because education level, health and standard of living actually affects productivity. They have their salary in yuans and able to buy same amount of goods and services in yuans as US workers in dollars - I don't think here there is significant difference. I think if you check how many BigMac you can buy on US worker salary in US and China worker salary in China it will be almost same. And same for goods they produces if you price them in BigMacs (american and chinese respectevely). But when you exchange dollar to yuan it will came much cheaper (for the same touchdown you'll have much less points).

It may be some difference in salary, because, I think productivity in US is better, but price for same amount of product probably will be same in BigMacs- american may make more products in same time.

When exchange rate will be real, then situaton will turn around - US will be more attractive for investments.

I am not sure how it works in Japan, but there in their supermarkets chinese products does not cost cheaper, there is no very big difference in price for same things made in China or in Japan. Same goods cheaper in US then in Japan even it is close by to China.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Juiceseller]

Labor is somewhere around 60% of cost to manufacture stuff. If it gets made in the US, it's gonna cost more ecause of miimum wage, standard of living, labor laws, etc. And someone is going to build/sell it cheaper to make more money. And then other people invest in foreign markets to get money back, cause the US doesn't exist in a 50 year old vacuum.

That doesnt sound right, just look at your logic....... Japan is in economic downturns for a long time now, why?.........It does the same thing to the US as the US is doing to China, and that is exporting (trading) jobs for cheaply made stuffs.

The Toyota that is made here sell as much as a domestic Ford. But the money the people earn here, mostly stay in this country............... Japan benefits very little by exporting jobs to America. And remmember, the Japanese are forced to do it, or else their cars would be taxed heavily if manufactured in Japan and brought into this country.

And when you say "invest in foreign markets to get money back", that basically mean you are lending out the money that you have saved by buying cheaply made overseas stuffs, in hope of high returns (basically, a type of gambling)..............If this works, then why it is harder for average American to make ends meet?

The only things that work and work everytime is when you have something that people want and they are willing to pay the asking price. All these trade stuffs dont work.

That sums it up, folks.

Cheers,



Juice

 

[Juiceseller]

It may be of some discomfort to you that this is being taught as fact in public high schools then, or at least as a sound theory. To be fair, they did tell us about some instances of labor being brought back to the US because the cost of training workers elsewhere proved too high and the labor force was unreliable. They also noted that workers who are laid off because of manufacturing being shifted elsewhere are supposed to receive training at no cost to them for other jobs under some arrangement which I don't remember, though this doesn't work too well. If we need to export more than we import, we're screwed I think, at least with the way things are currently. Of course I hardly know anything about this subject.

If this is being taught in public high schools, I afraid those kids are mislead and hoodwinked by the very people who want to keep us in the dark........the greedy (the powerfull) and the wicked.

Let think of it in simpler term........Take for example, me and you. You have some products that I want (that I dont have)........I am willing to pay your asking price and I pay you for the products. You just made some money, then If you got more products that I want and I buy some more from you...........then who is richer? you of course.

Same here, it is better to be a country that sells than a country that buys......... And also, seem that country that sells alway have the "power" over the country that consumes (buy).


Juice

 

[Psychopomp]

Not true at all, before Nixon visited China. The US was better economically, just ask any folk in their 50's or 60's age range who lived through the "old" days. This country does not need to trade with China or any country..........as the corporations lead you to think.

Not true then because there were no economic ties to China. But if we dropped all trade with China now, it would have dire effects. We could survive it, yes. But it would require overhauling the American manufacturing infrastructure because it's just not set up to produce everything like it was in the past.

It would be wonderful if everything could be produced in house, so to speak. But the mindset of the American consumer won't allow for prices to rise no matter what the leap in quality may be.

It's unfortunate.

 

[Juiceseller]

Not true then because there were no economic ties to China. But if we dropped all trade with China now, it would have dire effects. We could survive it, yes. But it would require overhauling the American manufacturing infrastructure because it's just not set up to produce everything like it was in the past.

It would be wonderful if everything could be produced in house, so to speak. But the mindset of the American consumer won't allow for prices to rise no matter what the leap in quality may be.

It's unfortunate.

Quality is quality, trash is trash.........some companies send their sale people out in force to sell you...........their trashes!

As an informed buyer, you make the choice. That is why forum is like is like tool. People here who like and own knives share their experiences with the forumites here about their durability and quality and what not.

America still can compete and produce quality products. I have seen it, just dont let the bussiness man run the design team, he will force the team to cut corner to make profits.

And some will tell you that they need to do so (cut corner) to remain profitable.....well, that is baloney. If they want to remain profitable, then put out the best products they can make while asking for a "fair" price.....then they dont have to remain worry about going under.

And dont worry about American not able to retool for her industries. Once you know how to ride a bicycle, you dont forget..........



Juice

 

[hardheart]

And when you say "invest in foreign markets to get money back", that basically mean you are lending out the money that you have saved by buying cheaply made overseas stuffs, in hope of high returns (basically, a type of gambling)..............If this works, then why it is harder for average American to make ends meet?

The only things that work and work everytime is when you have something that people want and they are willing to pay the asking price. All these trade stuffs dont work.

That sums it up, folks.

Cheers,



Juice

The US is a foreign market to other countries, as well. Currency get traded quite a bit too. Everyone else wants a strong dollar for pricing on these cheap goods exported to us.

 

[Juiceseller]

The US is a foreign market to other countries, as well. Currency get traded quite a bit too. Everyone else wants a strong dollar for pricing on these cheap goods exported to us.

:barf: Most people of today think money is the denomination of wealth..........

Not true, just look at Elvis.............His songs are wealth. Great innovations are wealth, great poets can generate wealth too.

But unfortunately, some people think money salad can relieve their hungers, then let them eat it.

Cheers,



Juice