It's legal to carry, but now what?

petesilversurfer

petesilversurfer

Joined
Apr 28, 2006
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I live in NY and have been carrying a Schrade Uncle Henry in a belt sheath for 15+ years without any problems. I'm wondering if anyone knows what the law says about actually using the knife in a defensive situation. Can I brandish it to (hopefully) scare off an attacker? What if the situation gets really ugly and I injure an attacker while defending myself?

I'd always try to avoid a confrontation, but if it came down to it, what would be the legal implications of pulling and using a knife?
 
Anything used as a weapon becomes a weapon ( beer bottle, pen, etc..) It is your actions judged against that of a "reasonable person" which will decide if you are charged in NY. Look at the NYS Penal Law under Justifications. It is fairly clear and not too long.

A knife is always deemed a deadly weapon when used as a weapon. Only times deadly force can be used are the following : to prevent an arson, murder, robbery, rape, and attempted murder. Burglary only when an occupied residence by the legal occupants.

If someone is attacking you, a knife is questionable as you would have to justify introducing a deadly weapon into the fight. If they were robbing you, then you have clearer rights. Read the law.....

I would not use a knife to scare away anyone as it will most likely be taken from you. A knife is used to quickly deploy and then retreat. Most people will attempt to disarm someone who pulls a knife in a fight, and a knife can easily kill, but it does not produce any immediate stopping power for most wounds.
 
tom while your post is full of good advice, i will say this... getting stabbed usually will stop someone.. not too many people wanna continue thefight when they have a blade inside of their intestines... or so i would imagine.
 
meshmdz, during my LEO days in NYC I have seen many ( far too many) shootings, stabbings and slashings. In seeing all of those it was rare ( a heart or lung wound even then not instant) that a knife wound would stop a person from attacking you in a quick manner. Most of the persons stabbed were not aware they were stabbed for some time. They mostly said they felt as though they were punched, until they realized they were bleeding. My only point is that it is rare that a knife wound will quickly stop the offensive actions of the person you stabbed in self defense. When they realize they are stabbed , they usually get more agreesive towards the person who stabbed them. Remember I am saying all this in response to someone defending themselves against someone who is attacking or robbing them. The attacker has started the action and has all his juices in full control of his actions and bodily systems. He will not feel the pain of a wound as quickly as the victim will. The victim will also be responding out of fear, and a different game is played out in the brain ( run or fight) The attacked has already made that descion and he will be more resistant to pain at that moment. I have seen many wounds that would not in and of themselves have been fatal, but the person stabbed continued to chase or fight the stabber and died from excessive blood loss. My point in all of this is that most knife wounds will not "drop" an attacker ( this is not TV) You should be aware of this if you ever defend yourself with a knife in the real world.....I also would not leave a "blade inside of their intestines" as you would have just armed him.....
 
Brandishing a knife in NY may constitute "Menacing" (which I think is a Class A Misdemeanor).

Never pull a knife unless you intend to use it. Often, a soft citizen who points a gun or knife at a bad guy is under the mistaken impression that he'll wet himself and scurry away -- sometimes they freeze like a deer in the headlights when, instead, the bad guy smiles and starts advancing. And if he has a weapon as well, the law will be the least of your worries.

If you intend to use it defensively, that doesn't mean you need to kill someone. One or two quick slashes to the arms or torso will stop most assailants. If he keeps coming, you should probably run.
 
More good advice. After reading the penal law, it seems to me that actually using a knife against someone would be the absolute last resort in a life or death self defense situation. Even if you thought you were justified and came out the winner, the law is still vague enough that you could end up walking free or in the slammer.

I carry a knife primarily as a tool for use at work, but its good to know where you stand with LE if you find yourself with no other options.
 
I assume you read SEC 35 of the NYS PL. One other thing, just make sure your knife does not have a loose blade that causes it to be flicked open, and therefore a gravity knife Sec 265 NYS PL
 
That's what I read, Tom. The law was pretty clear at first glance, but it still seems like there's a lot left open for interpretation (by a judge or jury). I mean, if an attacker says, "I'm going to kill you", does that justify a deadly response, or do I have to wait for a weapon to appear? I'm not a LEO or a lawyer, but if I'm trapped and am assuming the worst is about to happen, I might be inclined to reach for old Uncle Henry.

The Schrade can't be flicked open, so I think I'm all right on that account, but I'm about to receive a Spyderco Endura 4 Wave that hopefully won't be a problem for EDC.

Thanks again to everyone for all of your feedback!
 
petesilversurfer said:
That's what I read, Tom. The law was pretty clear at first glance, but it still seems like there's a lot left open for interpretation (by a judge or jury). I mean, if an attacker says, "I'm going to kill you", does that justify a deadly response, or do I have to wait for a weapon to appear? I'm not a LEO or a lawyer, but if I'm trapped and am assuming the worst is about to happen, I might be inclined to reach for old Uncle Henry.
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Every situation is different, as is every judge & jury.

Ultimately, you'll need to make that decision yourself -- probably in a matter of seconds -- so meditate upon the possibilities.

You do not "have" to wait for an attacker to draw a weapon, or even "hit you first" in order to respond with lethal force, should the situation warrant it. If the assailant is trespassing, twice your size, or with one or more associates, that ups the threat level considerably.

I am curious though -- rural upstate NY is fairly safe, for the most part -- is there a specific threat that has you worried?
 
No, not at all Tyr--I was just posing a hypothetical question. I've never had a problem taking care of myself anywhere; I was just curious about the possibility of defending yourself with a knife, and what the legal concerns might be.

Strangely enough, even though I live and work in lower NY state (a few miles from NYC), the couple of occasions I found myself confronted by trouble was when I was in places that I least expected it--a deserted road in the English countryside, and the quiet night-time streets of Buffalo, NY. Guess you never know!
 
petesilversurfer said:
and the quiet night-time streets of Buffalo, NY. Guess you never know!
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Buffalo, Rochester, and Albany are dangerous, compared to the rest of upstate NY. In rural areas, it's good to have a gun handy as well -- more for rabid animals and feral dogs than criminals.
 
If you wanna talk dangerous places in new york, talk about arbor hill. One of the worst places you could ever visit and chances are high of seeing a drug deal, a murder, or be shot at in broad daylight.
 
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