I've adopted another orphan.

See now, you had me looking for another gaze-hound happily perched in your house. :)


Nice buy. How do you protect yourself from fraudulent vendors? Is there a registry of authenticity they subscribe to?
 
no register, you need friends that are also collectors and who have researched the weapons. sometimes that is not enough. there are fakes. also decent reproductions which generally have a mark or some slight difference somewhere to let collectors know. sometimes they are made from salvaged parts married together to look like a rare antique. sometimes you get burned. most collectors have a corner to pile up the oopses. of which i've had my share. some really high end items have documentation, registered serial numbers or testimony from previous owners, like for one of napoleon's sabres that sold for a huge amount to one of his descendents just recently in 2008 ($6.8 million) sometimes the fakes are too good, using modern materials that are actually better than the originals would have been. as you build up experience, you tend to get better and make less mistakes.

an example, i have an ames 1849 Cabotville riflemans knife:

View attachment 491216

about a thousand were made for a company of riflemen being deployed to mexico in the mexican war, they weren't ready when they left, so they were never issued. most were later destroyed, some issued in the civil war. the few that survived are VERY expensive. a number of fakes keep turning up, most you can spot when you compare them to an original, the grip is off shape just a little, or do not have a known defect in the carving that was done by machine. or the stamps are wrong, wrong type face, or wrong plcement. mine is one that is almost perfect. sadly the CABOTSVILLE stamp on the blade by the grip forever shows it is a fake. as i bought it for next to nothing (i think it was about $15), that was not a problem. if real, it would be worth about $5000-10000. still, it's a darn good heavy spearpoint bowie knife, more of a short sword tho.if you haven't noticed, there is no S in the real name of the factory town.
 
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Looks awesome Kron, bet you can't wait to get it in hand. When I first started looking at buying weapons I saw so many of these axes and other strange knives ext from India and started laughing. At first I thought they were versions made strictly for decorating because of the thin hafts on them I thought no way they could be actual weapons. I mean seriously if you hit someone with one hard enough to cut through anything you would shatter the haft and be weaponless. I still haven't figured out why, but I have figured out they really did use them. But, they must have been effective or they wouldn't have become so standardized in that style.
 
the hafts do look thin, but are surprisingly strong. i thought the same about a lot of african spears that also have thin shafts and large blades. as you note, that's what they used, and it worked. the eastern warriors were never as highly armoured as the knghts were in the high middle ages and early renaissance, where even their heavy swords and axes usually did not actually cut thru a knights armour unless you hit a weak point like a joint, and even most of them were well protected. armpits were a weak point. usually protected by chain mail*. anyhow indian (and african) warriors generally were a lot more lightly armoured, if at all, and used a slicing draw cut rather than a bludgoning straight impact.

anyhow, they were not designed to chop wood. many european axes were used not only as weapons, but as everyday camp tools. most asian weapons are just that, weapons. they are designed to do the job at the least weight possible. as i found when i was at university, an epee is an extremely light version of a duelling sword, and after a bout that lasts only a few minutes, you come out emotionally as well as physically exhausted. most pre-gunpowder battles were surprisingly short. the romans used a rota where the guy at the bleeding edge fought for about 5 minutes, the centurio blew a whistle, and he fell back to the end of the rank as the guy behind took over. a major reason they almost always won. they practiced that maneuver like their lives depended on it. and they did.

anyhow, weapons and equipment do break, and soldiers hate to carry any more weight than absolutely necessary. a basic conundrum. too liughtly built and they fail when you most need them. too heavy and the grunts throw them away as soon as they can and use something more comfortable. another odd fact, with all our modern weapons and gear, the average grunt carrys the same weight of gear now as did the roman legionary i mentioned earlier. another reason i became an officer - and in a maritime service where i didn't march (much) and had a nice big ship to carry my stuff for me. besides, when we did march, i got to carry a sword. ;)

*- soldiers and knights developed the misericord/stiletto for that. once properly bludgeoned and all dented up and exhausted, the losing knight got it poked thru his eye slit to finish him off. no armoured glass in those days, and you couldn't make the eye openings too small or they couldn't see. those helms were bad enough as it was, and when gunpowder came out, they pretty much said the hell with it and went open faced again.
 
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my only experience with Epee was working with an epeeist who was training for the modern pentathelon. He wanted some unorthodox sparring to adjust to since he seemed to be having trouble breaking from a specific rhythm. In Pent, they only fight for 1 minute per bout with epees and it was one of the strangest things I have ever done :D It felt weird not being able to draw out an opponent and learn their weaknesses before attacking.
 
always great to hear from you kronk, love the history you share along with your knowledge of the weapons, I hope to know half as much one day !
 
I love the look of that axe, beautiful thing.

And that short sword Cabotville is really nice too. What a deal for 15 bucks even if it is fake.

Sure be something to have a real one with documentation. Don't think I'd sell it for 10,000. Well maybe I would, I need some tires on the van badly.
 
Love that battle axe bro, its super cool. Period pieces are so much better than repros. Sure modern stuff might have better steel and modern fittings but I much prefer battle worn period pieces with souls. Thanks for sharing, you have a rather diverse and quality collection. Clubs, axes, khukris... you are definitely my type of person. I wish you could go back in time and see the history that battle axe has seen.
 
i of course started fencing in high school with a french grip foil. hated it. found an italian grip and liked that one. they wouldn't let me try sabre for some reason i forget. no epees in HS. in uni i started again with a foil, and badgered our hungarian coach till he let me try the epee, which fit me to a 't'. a real (tho blunted) weapon, whose target was the whole body, unlike foil or sabre. i was the varsity epee captain in my senior year.

way back in the late 60's when i was stationed in new orleans, i had an apt. in the french quarter, and was about half a block from an antique arms dealer. he had a double bladed axe very much like this one that i bought, similarly engraved & a wood haft like this. no spike of course, and no silver inlay. i can't recall what happened to it, probably disappeared with my gun collection.

i also used to have a fairly large gun collection, sadly not allowed when i went to work in saudi, (or here in the UK now) so i left it in alabama with my brother in law, who passed away a few years back. i had them sell it bolster my grand daughter's college fund. no real antiques there, all shooters, .300 win mag scoped win. m70 deluxe grade i carried for hunting in kodiak, scoped .243 m70, marlin lever .45-70, stevens pump riot gun in 12 ga., a so. american 20 ga. hammered double barrel coach gun, .58 rifled musket repo, .44 remington percussion repo, .36 navy colt repo, walker colt repo, walther p-38 (that was an antique) i learned to hate & sold*. 9mm browning hipower (a favourite), a walther PPK in .380, another .380 mini-luger whose mfg. i forget, ruger .22 auto pistol, and a ruger .22 rifle, stevens .45-70 single shot, .38 s&w 5 shot stubby in ss, ss 6 in. s&w 357 (the ex got that one as part if the divorce setlement), colt .45acp revolver (didn't like that much), s&w .357 model 19, and my favourite when i was in the USCG, and later in alabama my EDC (had a concealed permit for it and the stubby) a colt .45 acp mark IV series 70. it could drive tacks at 25 yds and stay pretty much in the black at 50. that's the only one i miss. (well, maybe also the hipower and the S&W m19). also had a few knives there i miss, especially the one john ek made for me in the early '70's, a model 6.

edited.

*- the P38, hadn't thought about that one for decades. it was a 'good' one, all matching numbers, proper ww2 wehrmacht stamps, and i couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. the safest place to be when i was shooting it was right in front of the muzzle. darn rear sight was dovetailed in & would move around. tried epoxying it. didn't help much. it also stove-piped a lot, i think it wanted hotter rounds then i had available at the time. threw the empties straight back at me too, i recall.
 
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It never ceases to amaze me that schools these days don't even offer fencing or shooting as options for after school activities. I was part of my HS's girl's rifle team. We competed nationally and did fairly well. Now the school doesn't even keep our trophy's in the case with the others from that era. Afraid some parent will sue them for encouraging kids to think I suppose.

I always wanted to fight sabre. I could see the epee idea of the whole body as target, but the sabre was what sounded right to me. Then they started piling in the rules of right away ect.. and I lost interest.

It is amazing how thinking back we can remember each and every gun owned, their quirks and characteristics. But I can't remember what purse I carried last year. And I actually have more guns than purses. Not sure what that statement says about me as a fashionista :D
 
addendum:

it arrived today, heavy at 680 grams (1.5 lb.), haft length 62 cm long by 2 cm. diameter.. blade is 20 cm. top point to bottom one. spike is 10 cm. blade and spike are sharp. nice patina.
 
cm's, gram's, you ain't from round here are ya?:D

I got enough trouble learning pounds and ounces and quarts and pints, actually not bad at pints and fifths but I digress.
Never could get the hang of metric.

I hope your gal "Snookums" isn't offended by my ignorance, the thought of being digested for 1000's of years is depressing.

Sounds like your pleased with your new adoptee. Good for you my friend.
 
really like those axes in the same style with the hidden spike dagger, I have seen those a couple of times
 
62 cm. = 24 in. 2 cm. = 3/4 in. 10 cm. = 4 in. 20 cm. = 8 in. all approx.

little known fact, since the early years of the USA, congress adopted the new republican french measuring ystem, aka 'the metric' system as the only legal measuring system in the USA. the french had, of course helped us throw out the brits at yorktown, before throwing out their own king shortly afterwards (in two pieces).

congress being what it was and still is, then completely ignored the law, and the old mish-mosh of the english system prevailed everywhere except in the currency, which , like the metric is a decimal system.

anyhow, as an engineer i got used to both systems at university in NY, and afterwards in the coastguard doing vessel plan approvals for offshore oil vessels in NOLA, which were labelled in either or both systems. i still prefer the english system and my brain works in inches, feet, yards, miles (i use a conversion app on my pc for metrics). i also post to a more world-centric forum elsewhere, and copied it for here (and added the grams conversion). i figured y'all needed to work your brains a bit to scrape the rust off your gears and barnacles off your brains for the rest.

the english, being contrary did not adopt a decimal (metric) currency till the late 1960's. they resolutely refuse to convert to kilometers or kilometers per hour for road signs, speed limits, and speedometers in cars. new cars of course are all metricated (or is it metrisized?) so all bolts require a set of metric tools & bits are mearused in metric. petrol (gasoline) is measured in litres, milage is measured in miles/gallon (go figure) or miles/litre. temperature is measured in centigrade, and with a sop for us old folke, frequently also in fahrenheit as well. a recent european directive from brussels forced the brits to sell stuff in kilograms rather than pounds. merchants refused and some went to court over it and were fined or went to jail for a while. eventually people power sort of won & they now can sell in pounds/ounces as well as kilos/grams at their whim. you kinda get used to the madness after a while.

anyway, you will need to get used to it when his majesty barry obummer the first and his designated heir hitlary (aka billary) clinton sign over sovereignty to the UN, as is their fond desire. our soon to be masters use metrics, i'm sure they will ensure the holdouts are properly disciplined.
 
Shavru said:
.... It is amazing how thinking back we can remember each and every gun owned, their quirks and characteristics. But I can't remember what purse I carried last year. And I actually have more guns than purses. Not sure what that statement says about me as a fashionista :D
Click to expand...

It says that you're not one. And that's all to the good from my point of view. :)
 
kronckew said:
poor little axe needed a new home, so i'm adopting it.

19c axe from India, vendor est. latter half (1850-1899)
silver inlay, worn in places. wood haft, steel but cap.
no diminsions or weight yet. will update as it arrives.

View attachment 491178<---click minis for full sized photos
View attachment 491179
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p.s.-Not my arm, it's the vendor's :)
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Do you have an explanation or theory about the purpose of the downward curved point that almost touches the wood haft, and in the fourth photo looks like it might skewer the hand of the guy holding the haft?

Is the blade made to be reversible, so you can flip it over and reattach it to the haft in case the top point breaks off in combat? Or is it just done that way for looks?
 
davidf99 said:
Do you have an explanation or theory about the purpose of the downward curved point that almost touches the wood haft, and in the fourth photo looks like it might skewer the hand of the guy holding the haft?

Is the blade made to be reversible, so you can flip it over and reattach it to the haft in case the top point breaks off in combat? Or is it just done that way for looks?
Click to expand...

Interesting, Very good eye Davidf99. If you look at the 3rd picture you see a couple of pretty wicked chips/rolls in the edge just below the center of the blade. At first when I started looking at similar axes I wondered if strikes similar to those might have bent the tip closer to the handle than usual. However, most of the crescent axes I see have a similar tilt to them. As far as turning them over, I don't believe that was ever standard procedure. It is more a crescent shape has cultural reference. The Farasa (this style of axe) was the axe specifically associated with Lord Shiva and Goddess Durga and so the style dates back so far I can't really identify why they use that shape specifically. It is however not that much different from European Pollaxes in some semblance and is only slightly exagerated over a standard Axe. I feel (but am only guessing) that since as discussed earlier in the thread Indian warriors were lightly armored and so draw cuts were popular instead of smashing blows like a European axe against plate mail. So the blade is made to slide along a body as it cuts thereby creating a deeper draw cut. Also the reason I am guessing for the slight tilt towards the bottom as a pull or draw would start lower on the blade and slide towards the top of the weapon as it cut. Again just a reasoned guess not a for sure answer sorry.
 
I wasn't thinking about a draw cut, which might make sense for the lower curve of the blade.

I guess it's hard to know how a given blade might have been used unless you also know what kind of armor (or lack of armor) was customary among the most usual opponents, or what other weaponry they might be using.

Then there are ceremonial versions and weapons carried by officers, which might be fancier and in some ways less practical than what the "grunts" carried into battle. I just noticed that Kronckew's blade has silver inlay, which suggests a showpiece, though the basic design would not necessarily be different from the everyday version of the axe.
 
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