I've been wondering about something; need some help here.

[Yvsa]

Nasty being in the market for a Cherokee Rose got my mind to working tonight.
I have one of the Roses that Bura decided to carve a fish on the handle. It does make the knife unique, but IMO the Rose is unique enough without the carving. And were it a buffalo or two or an Eagle on it I may find it better to my liking, but a damned ol' fish.:barf:
Anyway I'm giving some thought to filling the carved areas with epoxy and am wondering how might be the best way to approach doing it.
The easiest I think would be to use a solid epoxy but I don't know several things here... How well would it stick in the carvings? How durable would it be? Can the solid epoxy be colored, thinking a nice Chinese Red or similar?
Would it fall out with hard use, say throwing if I were a mind too, that would be on a day when I was drunk and being ugly and that's not likely to happen anywhere near soon?
In reality I am thinking what if I was to hammer with the spine or pound the blade through a chunk of wood with a wood baton.
And those questions would apply to the liquid epoxies as well I'm thinking, with perhaps even some more added.

There were a couple of fellows who did some great things with Cholla Cactus and colored epoxies several long years back.
The did some in slab as well as block form.
I'm thinking that if I used one of the liquid epoxies I could make an aluminium form for half of it at a time, lay the handle in it and then pour the epoxy in half way up and after it cured carefully pare it down to the wood. Then do the other side...
I wonder if it would leave a fold line along there?:grumpy:
So many questions....
Do y'all even think it's feasable?

So what do y'all think. Throw out your ideas even if you think they're nuts. You never know what can work!!!!

The nice thing if this is possible it c/would make all the carved Roses back into the general all around purpose Bowie it was meant to be.
Hell, I might even do mine and sell my plain handled one to Nasty if this could be made to work out to my satisfaction. Not promising anything here though.

 

[spiraltwista]

Hi Yvsa,
Sounds an interesting project!

I wonder if quick drying Italian modeling clay {from toy shops} or plaster of paris mix would make a better complette mould around a held upright kuk handle? Less seems, easeir to mould etc.?

You could then pour epoxy in from the top.

As for strength, I have no idea but if there is no finish on the carving & you can put some undercuts within it, that should help, I would think.

Perhaps drill the handle & put push a buttcap & rod fixture into the epoxy & handle as well?

Just kicking a few ideas around, hope that helps,Dont know how well they would work.

Cheers,
Spiral

 

[Ferrous Wheel]

Pen had some insight on wood handle tratments, so mebbe he'll post an idea er 2. I'm sure there is some clear coat that can be colored and used for multiple dips...

Keith

 

[arty]

Yvsa - Is the carved fish just a grooved outline, or does the fish itself have some more carving? If it is raised above the rest of the handle, that complicates things, or simplifies them.

Epoxy may not hold if the area is too large, i.e. the gooves are too wide.
Depending on how things look, you might be able to alter the pattern with additional carving. You might be able to turn the fish into another animal, or a mermaid, or....

I would be concerned about the epoxy holding if there is any wax in the grooves. In addition, a thick band of epoxy would expand and contract at different rates than the wood. It depends on how thick it is.

It might be possible to carve the material out, and inlay wood, or leather....or a layer of silver, or bands of wood, as with marquetry.

How big is the fish pattern? Is it raised or grooved out? A photo would make replies easier, and help to try to figure out a solution.

 

[Nasty]

Yvsa...*I* was thinking about doing a contour (form of the grip) following cavity.

You could recess the entire side of the grip (following the lines of the grip) then drill a few angled anchors into the wood to make it a totally solid assembly. For a filler, there are many composite materials available that can be poured. A simple aluminum dam could be wrapped around the grip, poured, then belt sanded back down to the original lines of the grip.

You'd now have a properly formed handle, but with a contour following synthetic insert. Once at that point, an appropriate engraving (Eagle, Buffalo, Club colors, etc) could be done.

At minimum skill level (myself), I would do a black or red smooth fill and then do an old style brass stud pattern!

If I am forced to that point, that's what *I* intend to do.

I'm certain that *you* will be a part of my decision making! ;-)

 

[Yvsa]

Well I suppose I could take a couple of pix and put them on the same website I put the pix of my FF on, didn't think of that until just now.
The carving is down into the wood, been a while since I looked at it but don't think there's any wax in the grooves.
Well I took a break and went and dug it outta the safe. Should've done that to begin with.

There still doesn't appear to be any wax in the grooves and in reality if I took some 320 paper or so and gave it a good sanding to get rid of the rough spots my issues might just disappear.
My issue is that I'm afraid the carving will abrade the hand badly when used to its full capacity.
The worst area is right next to the guard where there's several approximately 1/16" deep grooves fanning out to make the fish's tail. The rest aren't as many as I had remembered, but that's probably because I never looked at it in quite the same way before.
The grooves are all about the same depth and carved like a "V" except for the scales that have a rounded straight up and down cut that tapers out to nothing.
Actually the fish gives the Bowie a mighty secure grip that might come in handy were a man's hand apt to be bloody and in a knife fight it ain't a question of if you're gonna get bloody, it's how bloody you're gonna get?

I'm still going to persue this because I ain't getting rid of my plain handled one, No Way!!!!
What irritates me the most is that I spent most of a year getting that handle designed just so; that it would be a multi-use handle in that when you hold the Rose up close it balance is damned nigh perfect in that the knife almost disappears in your hand and held towards the back it lets the knife rotate in the hand to be a good chopper, but I guess that's what we have the khuks for ainnit?

 

[ddean]

I think everthing has been said,
except, what about just replacing the handle entirely.
Might be simpler than contriving with epoxy fills.


Or maybe temporarily wrap the grip with a fine cord
(cotton kite string, or braided fishing line, or ?);
coated with something to hold it temporarily,
Or just duct tape it?

& see how it feels 'filled in'.

 

[Rusty]

If the handle is wood, replace the whole handle.

If the handle is horn, I've got links to several sites that sell Buffalo horn slabs, tapers, rounds, or whole horn sides.

I don't get why it would be easier to mold than just replace. Let me know if you want to know the links and I'll go find them.

 

[arty]

Cleanly cut grooves with a parting tool - a v shape - should be left alone. If they abrade the skin in use, it is always possible to round off the edge at the sides of the gooves.

If it looks ok, why bother replacing the handle?

 

[Nasty]

I think it's the fish part that's funky...at least it is to me. While I'm certain that it's appropriate in Nepal (maybe they dump the bodies in a river or lake after a knifefight?), something more American is what is desired...Eagle, Buffalo, or as I may do, simple outline insert and stud.

 

[ferguson]

Is this the one?

I'm with Rusty. Replace the whole handle if you don't like the fish. I like it. and would be glad to give it a good home. Or like Ddean said, wrap it in cord and varnish hell out of it. That way it would still be original underneath. If you still want to try epoxy, I've got some black and some red epoxy colorant that you could experiment with. It only takes a tiny bit to color a lot of epoxy.

Another idea, could you sand,chisel, carve each side flat, and epoxy on a thin slab of wood, then sand it back to shape?
Steve

 

[Kismet]

"In China, the Carp fish represents harmony and marital bliss, especially when two of them are seen swimming together. They swim against the current, and therefore have become an emblem of perseverance. The fish is included as one of the auspicious signs on the Footprints of the Buddha, and in this respect signifies freedom of restraints or obstructions. It is also used as a charm against evil influences. According to the Po Ku T'u (an ancient twenty volume illustrated manuscript), fish are compared to a king's subjects, and the art of angling to that of ruling. Thus an unskilled angler will catch not fish, nor will a tactless prince win over his people. "


Another source:

"Koi Carp
The Koi Carp is regularly featured in Chinese paintings since the Carp is particularly symbolic in the Chinese culture. Buyers of this art are often seeking the good fortune associated with its meaning.

"Carp" is similar sounding to the word "business" in Chinese. It is also homophonic with "profit" or "advantage" whilst "fish" is homophonic to "surplus" or "wealth". Paintings featuring Koi Carp are therefore considered symbolic of good fortune in business or academic life. The Carp is also considered a symbol of endurance and perseverance, and is said to be able to progress along the mighty rapids of the Yellow River leaving all other fish behind. Comparisons are drawn with businessmen seeking advantage over their competitors.

Carp, according to ancient belief could transform themselves into dragons when they reached 100 years old. "

 

[Nasty]

Okay then...

Yvsa my friend, I *charge you* to hang around 98 more years and *then* send me that Rose! ;-)

 

[Yvsa]

Okay then...

Yvsa my friend, I *charge you* to hang around 98 more years and *then* send me that Rose! ;-)

Nasty please don't wish that on me.

Some good ideas and ones I would never have thought of. I knew I could count on y'all.

Thanks for the info on the Carp Kis. I sure never knew that!!!!

 

[munk]

Yvsa, if you're partial to the blade, keep it. Do what you want with the handle. Like some others here, though. I'd rather buy the darn thing from you if you were willing, than have you fiddle with a fish I like.


munk