IVORY??? What's the current status of the law?

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Jan 3, 2011
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I did a search back through July 2014 and didn't see anything about the current legislation of ivory. I have 5 ivory folders and a few mammoth ivory folders.
Any updates?

Thanks Tom
 
Nothing new yet. Mammoth will not be banned except in some states like NY I think. The pro ivory people are making good strides with congress and the senate. It is all about education me thinks.
 
Black Jack, Thank you for the July/2014, Blade Mag article.....

All my ivory folders were made by GEC. Can or will GEC be able to provide any documentation on the ivory they used? It appears that any ivory without documentation may become illegal to own or sell.

See below from the Blade Mag article:

"Meanwhile, Hoover recommends you
obtain as much documentation as possi-
ble on your ivory knives.
The problem, as
one source close to the scene pointed out,
is that such documentation may be all but
impossible to obtain in many cases.
“
That proof does not exist because
none was required unless you imported
ivory into the United States
after the ex-isting bans—1990 for
African and 1975for Asian elephant ivory"

Thanks, Tom
 
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You're welcome Tom, it's not a good situation is it? All my ivory knives are old, I buy them from markets and antique shops, and have no documentation for them. I don't want to sell any of them, but I do like to give them away from time to time, and it's getting difficult even to do that.

Jack
 
Black Jack, Thank you for the July/2014, Blade Mag article.....

All my ivory folders were made by GEC. Can or will GEC be able to provide any documentation on the ivory they used? It appears that any ivory without documentation may become illegal to own or sell.

See below from the Blade Mag article:

"Meanwhile, Hoover recommends you
obtain as much documentation as possi-
ble on your ivory knives.
The problem, as
one source close to the scene pointed out,
is that such documentation may be all but
impossible to obtain in many cases.
“
That proof does not exist because
none was required unless you imported
ivory into the United States
after the ex-isting bans—1990 for
African and 1975for Asian elephant ivory"

Thanks, Tom

I own a beautiful elephant ivory folder from GEC, specifically an American Jack. I assume it's pre-ban, but there was nothing accompanying the knife. I had the same concern. I wrote to GEC about this particular knife & they told me they obtained the ivory from a third party (not named) and that they do not keep documentation. At that point I set the can of worms aside & did not pursue it further. I understand why all the dealers dumped what they had. I believe it's nearly impossible tor authenticate pre-ban ivory without a detailed paper trail.
 
Nothing new yet. Mammoth will not be banned except in some states like NY I think. The pro ivory people are making good strides with congress and the senate. It is all about education me thinks.

That is good to hear :thumbup: Thanks John and thank you again for the awesome stag donation for the BF knife.
 
Sherman01 said;

I own a beautiful elephant ivory folder from GEC, specifically an American Jack. I assume it's pre-ban, but there was nothing accompanying the knife. I had the same concern. I wrote to GEC about this particular knife & they told me they obtained the ivory from a third party (not named) and that they do not keep documentation. At that point I set the can of worms aside & did not pursue it further. I understand why all the dealers dumped what they had. I believe it's nearly impossible tor authenticate pre-ban ivory without a detailed paper trail.

In post # 17 of this thread, Charlie (waynorth) states that he gave GEC the elelphant tusk that they use.

waynorth said:

The tusk that GEC is using was from an estate, and was "collected" before WWI. I used to own it.
I would never use modern ivory, nor would GEC. It is better as knife handles than as some trophy celebrating the killing of elephants. It was in fact a beautiful tusk, but I just couldn't mount it for display. On the other hand, I see it as no different than wearing leather shoes, to use it to handle a knife, given the elephant has gone to Elephant heaven almost 100 years ago.
The carbon footprint of that tusk is far, far less than modern plastic imitation handles, BTW!
And it does age nicely, albeit slowly.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/897223-GEC-elephant-ivory?

Interesting thread.
 
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Moving this somewhere else. I don't know where it belongs, but it does not belong in the Traditional Forum.
 
There are probably over a dozen threads in the search function that cover this topic in traditional knives. Why all of a sudden is it not for discussion in traditionals. Just look at the thread I referenced. There are several more that have run under traditional. Just askin.
 
For what it's worth, Sandra Brady wrote to USFWS to get a written explanation of what the current status of the law was with respect to selling ivory across state lines and whether a permit is needed. Below is their response:

From: "Management Authority, FWHQ" <managementauthority@fws.gov>
Subject: Re: ESA permit
Date: October 20, 2014 at 4:44:55 PM EDT
To: sandy Brady

Thank you for your inquiry. We appreciate your patience.


The first step in this process is to evaluate whether your items are made of African or Asian elephant ivory. Such proof can be in the form of a qualified appraisal or other documentation that definitively demonstrates the identification of the species through a detailed provenance of the article.


If your items are made from Asian elephant ivory and you wish to sell them across state lines (interstate commerce), you will need to be able to demonstrate that your ivory meets the definition of an antique--

To qualify as antique, the importer, exporter or seller must show that the item meets all of these criteria:

A: It is 100 years or older;

B: It is composed in whole or in part of an ESA-listed species;

C: It has not been repaired or modified with any such species after December 27, 1973; and

D: It is being or was imported through an endangered species &#8220;antique port.&#8221;

***Under Director&#8217;s Order 210, as a matter of enforcement discretion, items imported prior to September 22, 1982, and items created in the United States and never imported must comply with elements A, B, and C above, but not element D.

If you can provide proof confirming that this ivory was imported prior to September 22,1982 (for example, a datable photo of the owner with the item, a dated letter or other document referring to the item) you will not need to meet element D above.


If your items are made from African elephant ivory and you wish to sell them across state lines or to a resident of another state (interstate commerce), you will be able to sell your ivory if you can demonstrate that your ivory was lawfully imported prior to January 18, 1990 (the date that the African elephant was listed in CITES Appendix I). Again, this proof could be in the form of a datable photo, a dated letter or other document referring to the item.


If your items are made from African or Asian elephant ivory and you wish to sell them within your state to a resident of your state (intrastate commerce), you will be able to sell your ivory if you can demonstrate that your ivory was lawfully imported prior to the date that the species was listed in CITES Appendix I (January 18, 1990 for the African elephant; July 1, 1975 for the Asian elephant). Again, this proof could be in the form of a datable photo, a dated letter or other document referring to the item.


You do not need to apply for a permit or contact our office to conduct these activities; however, you should have all documentation ready so that you can demonstrate the legality of the sale, if asked. We would also suggest that you pass along all documentation to the buyer of your elephant ivory items.


Please note that this guidance is current, but we do anticipate additional actions in the coming months that will impact how elephant ivory can be traded (e.g. bought or sold) within the United States. Refer to our Elephant Ivory Trade Q&A page for the latest information.


To summarize:

1. Gather documentation that identifies whether the ivory was derived from an African elephant or an Asian elephant. This can be done through a qualified appraisal or detailed provenance of the article.

2. Gather documentation, such as a datable photo or dated letter, that demonstrates that the ivory was lawfully imported prior to the species listing in CITES Appendix I (January 18, 1990 for the African elephant; July 1, 1975 for the Asian elephant) OR, if Asian elephant ivory to be sold across state lines, gather documentation that the items qualify as "antique".

3. Check the Elephant Ivory Trade Q&A page for any updates made since you received this guidance.

4. Check to make sure that you are also in compliance with local and state laws.

5. Proceed to sell your elephant ivory in compliance with all applicable laws.

We appreciate your time and consideration.
Please do not hit "reply to...," reply to managementauthority@fws.gov.

******************************************************
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
International Affairs Program
Division of Management Authority
Branch of Permits
1-800-358-2104
Reply to: ManagementAuthority@fws.gov
http://www.fws.gov/international/permits/

******************************************************
New mailing address:
ATTN DIVISION OF MANAGEMENT AUTHORITY - BRANCH OF PERMITS
U.S. FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICE HEADQUARTERS
MS: IA
5275 LEESBURG PIKE
FALLS CHURCH, VA 22041-3803
 
Before I forget, the law is more restrictive in New York and New Jersey.

In NY, you can't sell any elephant or mammoth ivory without a permit, and you can't get a permit unless the item is over 100 years old and has less than 20% ivory by volume.

In NJ, you can't sell any ivory from any species or possess ivory with intent to sell it, effective February 1, 2015. The law was passed Aug 1, 2014 with a six month enforcement delay.

California and Hawaii have ivory bans, too, but I'm not as familiar with them.
 
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