Izula problem?

Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
87
Hi guys, I picked up an Izula to use at my current part time job, overnight at Target, so it involves lots of opening and breaking down boxes. While I realize that a dedicated box cutter works better, it's the one pleasure I get out of that place, to be able to be able to use my knives freely. But i've run into a slight problem.

Excited about using my knife, I began use it to cut the packing tape, and break down the occasional box into smaller portions. I'd say, 75% of the cutting time on packing tape, 25% actually cutting boxes. And by the end of the first hour, my edge was pretty much blunted. Razor sharp, to being able to run my finger across it.

At first, I thought, okay, maybe the tape is gunking up the blade or something. So I cleaned it that night, sharpened it with my sharpmaker on the 40 degree setting, all the way up to the ultra-fine rods, and then went to work again. Instead, I only used it to cut the few boxes that I had to break down, and no tape. I used my Gerber EAB box cutter for the tape. And again, by the end of the first hour, after maybe 5-10 boxes, it was completely blunt again.

I figured at this point, perhaps the edge was fatigued from the factory grinding process. So I took it home, and did the standard 30 degrees to knock the shoulders down, and a full sharpening on 40 degrees from course to ultra fine. I figured that the 'newer' metal underneath would be better.

Unfortunately, that night, I found the same thing to happen. Blunt after about an hour of work. I've repeated the sharpening process a couple times now, with the same results. My Izula just can't seem to hold an edge. My sharpening skills aren't terrible, in fact, I think I do quite well with my sharpening setup. Just a sharpmaker and the Ultrafine stones.

Over the past couple months of working there, i've used a quite a few knives to do this same job. My Spyderco Delica with its VG-10 steel worked incredibly well, burning through all the tape and boxes with only a touch up on the ultra-fine stones at the end of the week. My Spyderco Persistence with its 8cr13mov steel needs a touch up every night, or every 2 nights on ultra fine stones to get its edge back.

Does this performance sound right for the 1095 steel in the Izula? I'm really only getting through 5-10 boxes before completely losing my edge. I'm quite confused, especially when my Persistence is outdoing it. Could it be a heat treatment issue? What do you guys think? And what should I do? Thanks for your help, guys. I really want to enjoy this knife, I'm just not sure what's going on with it.
 
Cardboard is really nasty stuff to a blade and I say it's probably normal wear on 1095. For the cardboard you would be better off with vg10,s30v,d2,zdp189 ect!! Or bring a small field sharpening device to work !! An ez lap card would be perfect!!
 
I do similar tasks at work with my Izula and it holds a very good edge through lots of cardboard cutting. It wasn't so at first. I think I had a little wire edge that kept rolling over, so I sharpened it really well and now just maintain it on a strop.

If it does end up being a heat treat issue, ESEE will take care of you for sure.
 
Cardboard is very tough on an edge. If you think about it, alot of folks use cardboard as a strop to remove small ammounts of steel.

The RC hardness is going to play a factor in this as well. Higher RC is going to give you a longer edge life in situations where you don't have to concern yourself with chipping. The ESEE blades are designed with hard use in mind so they are a bit softer as to be more forgiving when they contact something that would chip a harder blade.

Personally, I always used a cheap folder when I needed to do alot of breaking down of boxes and the like, not only for the reasons mentioned above but also because I was always loosing them by leaving them laying about or lending them out. YMMV.
 
it's possible there's a wire edge left, but cardboard is nasty to a knife edge. it's got clay in it. i use my izula all the time at work, and it does get dulled by cutting boxes.
 
As said before cardboard is terrible on an edge, if I am going to be cutting down boxes i would stick with VG-10(Like Spyderco Endura 4 FFG) or D2(Like Benchmade 710d2)
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with the steel or heat treat. As stated cardboard is really hard on an edge. The comparison betweent eh izula (1095 carbon) and the Spyderco (VG10 stainless) is about right since the stainless is a LOT harder RC and will hold the edge longer than carbon steel. But it is also going to take you a LOT longer to sharpen the VG10 stel than the carbon:) That is the trade off and why we use the carbon . In the field where time counts it is a lot easier/quicker to return a carbon steel edge to serviceable condition than the stainless. Both edges witll dull and get damaged in field use but we go for the easiest to return to useable condition quickly and with the lowest tech method available (a rock and water will fix carbon steel).

Now having said all this if you are unhappy with it return it to the shop via the warranty process and let Shon have a look at it. We will be happy to replace it if it is a heat treat problem. Mike
 
I think if I was going to be cutting cardboard boxes all day with an Izula I'd do two things: 1) remove the blade coating and 2) change the edge geometry to less than 20 degrees. I think those two changes would a a huge improvement on the number of boxes you could cut before going dull. Another thought that was brough up is the wire edge. The edge could be rolling on you after cutting 5 or 6 boxes. You might do a convex on the edge and see how well that works. But again, if you would like for us to veryify the heat treat we can do that for you.
 
I think if I was going to be cutting cardboard boxes all day with an Izula I'd do two things: 1) remove the blade coating and 2) change the edge geometry to less than 20 degrees. I think those two changes would a a huge improvement on the number of boxes you could cut before going dull. Another thought that was brough up is the wire edge. The edge could be rolling on you after cutting 5 or 6 boxes. You might do a convex on the edge and see how well that works. But again, if you would like for us to veryify the heat treat we can do that for you.

Sounds exactly like what's going on. I spent a day breaking down boxes with my Izula at one point and had to keep using a Diafold to restore the edge. A lot of folks don't realize this, but cardboard uses clay as a binder. So you're basically cutting dirt.
 
I think if I was going to be cutting cardboard boxes all day with an Izula I'd do two things: 1) remove the blade coating and 2) change the edge geometry to less than 20 degrees. I think those two changes would a a huge improvement on the number of boxes you could cut before going dull. Another thought that was brough up is the wire edge. The edge could be rolling on you after cutting 5 or 6 boxes. You might do a convex on the edge and see how well that works. But again, if you would like for us to veryify the heat treat we can do that for you.

Right on. Strip the coating, convex the edge down to 20-30 degrees inclusive and your Izula will slice much better. :thumbup: You could also strop on the cardboard after every couple of boxes to extend your cutting sessions.
 
Right on. Strip the coating, convex the edge down to 20-30 degrees inclusive and your Izula will slice much better. :thumbup: You could also strop on the cardboard after every couple of boxes to extend your cutting sessions.

+1 on convexing and strop on the cardboard during the work.
 
I have used many different knives for cutting cardboard and none lasted for too long before it needed a touchup but the thinner the edge the better.
 
I decided to cut some card board boxes I've got left today with my Izzy for a comparison, and I'm not sure how you're dulling it so much... I broke down 15 and could still scrape arm hair off. It had definitely dulled, but after 5 boxes I hadn't noticed any significant wear.
 
After I cut cardboard, I strop my knife on a piece of the cardboard that I cut.

In theory, once you use a knife once it is not as sharp as it can be. This use and the effects it's having on your edge sound perfectly normal to me. Quick touch ups can be done with cardboard or if you want to bring some sort of pocket sized hone or stone you could to that too.

This is the way I see it...

Bravo on getting out there and USING your knives, as well as possessing the skills to sharpen and maintain them. It will give you lots of practice on playing around with angles and maintaining the bevels on your Izula to find what works the best for your uses.

JGON
 
i keep my izula at about 17 degrees, and the coating's smooth enough. cardboard takes care of that part. convexing helps, but i like having a microbevel on it.
 
First off, thank you all for the responses and information, this place is a wealth of information, and kind people. It's nice to be able to have a place to compare thoughts with others of like mind, as well as even the hosts who actually bring us the knives we use.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the steel or heat treat. As stated cardboard is really hard on an edge. The comparison betweent eh izula (1095 carbon) and the Spyderco (VG10 stainless) is about right since the stainless is a LOT harder RC and will hold the edge longer than carbon steel. But it is also going to take you a LOT longer to sharpen the VG10 stel than the carbon:) That is the trade off and why we use the carbon . In the field where time counts it is a lot easier/quicker to return a carbon steel edge to serviceable condition than the stainless. Both edges witll dull and get damaged in field use but we go for the easiest to return to useable condition quickly and with the lowest tech method available (a rock and water will fix carbon steel).

Now having said all this if you are unhappy with it return it to the shop via the warranty process and let Shon have a look at it. We will be happy to replace it if it is a heat treat problem. Mike

To Mike and Shotgunner, and a couple other guys, thank you for the information about 1095 vs a stainless steel. I did not realize some of these factors/properties of the steels made so much difference. It's interesting to see some of these aspects first hand. The 1095 certainly does seem to take an edge quite easily, does that mean that due to the ease of putting an edge on the blade, it is more prone to being affected by bad sharpening technique than say a stainless steel, or harder RC steel?

That being said, I'm the type of person to first look inward before running around trying to scapegoat blame onto someone else. If it is bad sharpening technique, then it is certainly something for me to work on. But I guess it would not be a bad idea to confirm that the steel I'm working with is properly treated, before I go on and remove more and more steel in my practicing and use.

I think if I was going to be cutting cardboard boxes all day with an Izula I'd do two things: 1) remove the blade coating and 2) change the edge geometry to less than 20 degrees. I think those two changes would a a huge improvement on the number of boxes you could cut before going dull. Another thought that was brough up is the wire edge. The edge could be rolling on you after cutting 5 or 6 boxes. You might do a convex on the edge and see how well that works. But again, if you would like for us to veryify the heat treat we can do that for you.

Am I to understand that the blade coating is adding thickness to the blade, and making more work for me during this task? Now I'm wondering if it really is a wire edge. If properly edged, would it be unreasonable to expect that the edge does not roll so easily? Would a convex edge add durability or edge retention, based on the geometry? Or is the convex recommended for it's slicing ability?

Sounds exactly like what's going on. I spent a day breaking down boxes with my Izula at one point and had to keep using a Diafold to restore the edge. A lot of folks don't realize this, but cardboard uses clay as a binder. So you're basically cutting dirt.

I did not realize that about cardboard. The interesting part about that is, instead of being a deterrent to cutting, it actually kinda sounds like a challenge to me. In my urban environment, I don't get very hard/mean things to cut. The occasional plastic packaging is probably the most aggressive thing I get to cut in my everyday life. Most of my everyday cutting is paper, like envelopes and the such. Not exactly something you'd need a higher end steel for. I've been having trouble justifying some of my knife purchases. There's just something about knowing that cardboard is a nasty thing to cut, that makes it all the more pleasurable to actually go out there and use my blades.

...that makes me sound kinda sick, doesn't it? Does anyone else feel that way? :p

Right on. Strip the coating, convex the edge down to 20-30 degrees inclusive and your Izula will slice much better. :thumbup: You could also strop on the cardboard after every couple of boxes to extend your cutting sessions.

And to the other guys who suggested stropping on cardboard after a couple boxes, that sounds like a great idea. I will definitely put this into practice.

This is the way I see it...

Bravo on getting out there and USING your knives, as well as possessing the skills to sharpen and maintain them. It will give you lots of practice on playing around with angles and maintaining the bevels on your Izula to find what works the best for your uses.

JGON

This is very true, and once I get the steel confirmed as properly treated, I will definitely to out there and use it more. There really is something satisfying about using the edge I just created, and subsequent maintenance that it requires to keep such a fine edge. It's funny. As a kid, I used to be deathly afraid of knives or anything sharp. Now, I can't get enough of it!

Thanks again for all the thoughts and responses.
 
Cut some .5" limbs off a christmas tree with mine today, after I was done, I could still shave with it.
 
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