J.B. Weld @ 1084/L6

Joined
Aug 21, 2001
Messages
397
Hi guys,

I saw a post on this awhile ago, but havn't been able to find it. I need to know what you think the best way to get a guard off a blade, if it has been press fitted and sealed with J.B Weld (a la Primos style.)

I seriously messed up, as I built a beutiful 240 layer "W" pattern blade, differentially hardended, tempered one hour at a time until the edge no longer chipped during brass rod flex. Everything seems O.K., so I finished the knife off with, then did a cutting test with 1/2" sisal rope, and only could get 20 cuts. I then had it Rockwell tested, which indicated RC54!!!!!!! Crap. Anyway, now I've decided to take it apart and try the heat treat again. The blade was 1084/L-6, and final tempering temp. was 450 degrees, I started at 350. What do you fellas generally end up tempering this combination at?
 
I just did this yesterday. Sit the end of the tang on a hard solid surface and take a dead blow hammer and tap the ends of the guard till it comes off. Alternate the end you hit and it should come off fairly easy.
 
Clint,
I am flattered for the mention, and sure feel bad about your problem. If memory serves me correctly, when I was researching the JB Weld, I believe that it starts to break down at about 600 degrees Fahrenheit. U-m-m.. you're in Canada aren't you? I'll bet you guys use Celcius. That's what -- about 316 degrees Celcius?

Since you are going to re-heat treat, you should be able gradually bring the temp up until the JB Weld starts to break down, and tap the guard off. I've never had to do it, so I can't say with any certainty.

I can tell you however, how to avoid this in the future. Immediately after the final tempering, put an edge on the blade and test it. Test the daylights out of it. Once it passes the tests, then and only then move on to cleaning it up, etching, and assembling. I do this with every single knife I make.

At the risk of looking like a smartass, I'll show you some of the things I do.

Tempering Colors (1084)
temper-colors.jpg

For 1084, I use 400 degrees F. At this temperature I get dark straw. The bit of peacock (purple) at the edge and the tip is good. It will give a good tough edge. If you are using a kitchen oven, go out and buy an oven thermometer. Kitchen ovens are generally not very accurate. Some are off by 50 degrees F. or more, and many (most?) have spikes during the cycles. My kitchen oven when set for 380 degrees F. will actually hit 400 F. and spike to 410 F. If your oven was set for 450 F., it is possible that it actually went to 500 F, and then spiked even higher.

Rolling The Edge
rolling-edge.jpg

As stated, I put an edge on the blade right after tempering. You can see the tempering colors here, as well as a hint of the temper line. I am slack belting a convex edge.


Checking For A Keen Edge
paper-slice.jpg

Hold and cut thin slices from a piece of paper to check the keeness of the edge. Magazine paper is okay. Newspaper is better.

cig_paper_slice.jpg

If you really want to check for sharpness, try a cigarette paper. This is not easy, especially with a big knife.


Checking the Toughness of the Edge
pine-knot.jpg

On smaller knives like this hunter, I find a board with a good hard knot, and hack away at the knot.

2x4_chop.jpg

On larger knives, I do the knot trick and chop the board in two a couple or three times.

Sometimes I'll also hack a limb off a tree, chop on a piece of landscaping timber, slice rope, etc., but every knife at least does the paper slicing and board hacking/chopping. When you are doing this, work the entire edge, not just one spot.


Testing the Tip
tip-test.jpg

This is a step I only added in the last year months or so. I'll jam the tip into a board, a chuck of wood, etc. and then twist or pry chunks out.

Check the Edge for Shaving Sharpness
shaving.jpg

After all the tests have been performed, I make sure that the edge will still shave hair. Then I do a visual inspection of the edge. To do this, I go outside in good sunlight and hold the blade edge up. Rock the blade in the sunlight and watch the edge. Any soft spots wherethe edge flattened or rolled over will sparkle like a diamond.

I also do an inspection by feel. You can do this by lightly dragging the edge across the edge of a sheet of paper. I usually do it on the edge of my fingernail, which is not as safe. What you are feeling for is a catch in the movement. This would signify a small chip in the edge.

Here's the guidelines I use when "reading" the edge. If there is a flat spot, then the blade is drawn back too far. If there is a chip, the blade has not been drwan back enough. If the edge just has little crinkles in it, there is a good chance that I just have the edge too fine. For that problem I would go back beef up the edge by changing the convexity, and go through the tests again.

If all went well, THEN I move on to the cleaning up, hand-rubbed finish, etching, etc.

Hope this helps.
 
Well Terry, thanks very much for the excellent tutorial in blade testing! Definately thourough and very useful. I should have clued in that the blade was too soft when it turned a light purple after the last temper cycle, but the thing is that the edge still wanted to crack when flexed on a brass rod. I am using an oven thermometer to confirm temp. in my tempering oven, and your right about variences, as it is out 25 degrees F. The two important things learned here: expand my testing BEFOR finishing a knife, and don't get in a big hurry! (Thing is, I couldn't wait to see how cool the pattern was, and how great it would look with NS guard and blackwood /antler handle.....Dumb.) Thanks again, I learned plenty. As a side note, you have an excellent web site generous with info., that has helped me greatly.
 
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