Japanese characters on tanto saya

[Andorian]

Hello, I hope this in the right section (doesn't really for well in any section I've seen), but I just finished making my first japanese tanto, but before I lacquer it I'm thinking about adding some Japanese kana to the saya. My problem is that I don't really know what to use. The tanto is dyed black with a brass (quasi) tsuba that is flush with the tsuka and saya, so the kana would have to be white.

My thought was a white brush pen from a craft store, but I don't know if those use ink or paint. I think it kinda needs to be paint to sit on top of the wood so the black dye doesn't show through, But at the same time not so thick that the kana will noticably cause ridges in the finish

Anyone here ever done something like this or anything similar? Any advice on what kind of paint to use and/or a type of brush that will work well (if not a calligraphy brush)

Here's a couple pictures of the tanto (sorry couldn't figure out how to get them to appear directly):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z9wD8jGkb3n77Xtk2brrZuzIr858o-_g/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z6WibdZApHLDCRJ6ukPVoAlnjpgGvwWO/view?usp=drivesdk

 

[BitingSarcasm]

If it’s a display piece, it doesn’t really matter as long as it is permanent. If it’s a piece for use, putting the paint on top of the wood will leave a tactile layer. I tried putting Chinese characters on wooden handles/ tools this way, and it felt weird holding them. You can buy ink or paint pens, both are available and clearly labeled. I don’t like the permanent ink pens on wood, the ink can run into the grain and get “fuzzy” looking; I haven’t tried in years though, the pens might be better now. Paint pens might be your best bet for uniform lines without actually breaking out modeling brushes. A template would be even better if you can print and cut one. My preference would be to use a fine tip on a dremel and paint the negative space. Hopefully you have a few scraps left over you can test first to see how your paint travels.

On a purely aesthetic level, be very certain that you want to do this, that you know the exact meaning of what you want to write, and that you can execute it to a high degree of fidelity. It would be terrible to put your time and energy into a project and then cap it off with a misspelling or characters that look like kindergarten scrawl to a native speaker. I spent hours transcribing a passage from the Tao Te Ching onto a piece of wood in gold paint, but when I took a step back and looked at the characters, I realized the high viscosity of the paint turned my characters into something a little embarrassing. It looks like you have gone for a simple, clean look in your tanto, complicating it with kana should be a deliberate step. A simple geometric design or minimalist animal or plant in a Japanese style might be a way to add decoration without complicating the piece.

 

[Andorian]

Thanks for the reply. Honestly at this point, I'm having second thoughts on the characters, mainly because of my own poor handwriting. All my experimenting looks like a 4 year old wrote it. I did find what seems like the perfect medium to write on the black wood (Dr ph Martin's bleed proof white ink), but unless I can find someone local to do the writing for me, I think it would end up taking away from the overall appearance. By the way the characters I wanted to put on were "bushido" (the samurais code) in something akin to japanese calligraphy so I wouldn't have to worry about the translation being correct, since it's available all over the place.

I do like the idea of a simple japanese pattern or image, maybe a traditional simplistic image of a cherry blossom (any other traditional japanese images or symbols anyone can suggest?) Which I'm sure I can find or print a stencil for.

I actually came across another obstacle yesterday. When testing lacquer on a test piece, the solvents were causing my dye to wipe off and smear as I was wiping/brushing the lacquer on. Today I'm going to test spraying it instead, but I have this suspicion that the solvents in the lacquer will cause whatever writing or image I have on there to melt and bleed, if not worse. I'll know more on that front after I get my HVLP set up and do some testing, but any advice on the interaction between the dye and lacquer would be appreciated as well.

 

[BitingSarcasm]

I actually came across another obstacle yesterday. When testing lacquer on a test piece, the solvents were causing my dye to wipe off and smear as I was wiping/brushing the lacquer on.

The problem I ran into with various dyes was that they have a volatile base that holds and delivers the pigment and binder, which will then evaporate leaving the pigment bound to the surface. Bear with my tired memory, it's been a while.... but if I recall correctly, the volatile compound is often at least partially alcohol based, so the binder has to be alcohol soluble. Lacquer is also dissolved in a volatile base, and to a greater or lesser extent, there will be alcohol. The dye is designed to be soluble by the solvent you are adding with the lacquer, that would be my home chemist hypothesis on why the dye is running. Or maybe you are using water based lacquer, and that stuff has some crazy interactions with dyes and stains. Switching to an acrylic lacquer would be a possible solution, or maybe a layer of polyurethane over the dye to protect it followed by the desired finish of lacquer. I settled on Miniwax and poly for most of my staining and finishing, since they don't interact with each other. It's not as pretty as properly layered lacquer, but it's a lot less headache and 90% of folks barely notice the difference. I'm just a hobbyist, maybe someone who does this for a living could chime in.

 

[Andorian]

maybe a layer of polyurethane over the dye to protect it followed by the desired finish of lacquer

is lacquer over poly possible? A couple articles I read this morning said that the two finishes do not interact well and you can't use either over the other. Now they didn't specify water or oil based poly or the type of lacquer so I don't know if they're might be a specific combo that does work?
I'm wondering if a sanding sealer like zinser sealcoat would help lock the dye in? A lacquer sanding sealer would probably have the same effect as the lacquer, but I wonder if the sealcoat might have a less volatile solvent that won't effect the dye as much?

Also an update on the experimenting I've been doing. I tried spraying some lacquer on a test piece that had some writing on it. The writing didn't smear at all after the lacquer was sprayed on but it did essentially dissolve, leaving little Trace that the writing was ever there in spots. That writing was in acrylic. I still need to test if the no bleed ink holds up better, but as of right now I think I'm leaning towards finishing it without the writing or image. (Although I will still try to find a method that will work well for future projects, or for others attempting something similar)