Japanese cutlery I got recently from CKTG

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littleknife

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Nov 29, 2000
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Over the last month or so I got several Japanese kitchen knives from Chef Knives To Go (CKTG):
- Kohetsu Blue #2 steel gyuto 270 mm with Western, bolsterless handle
- Kohetsu HAP40 steel gyuto 270 mm with Western handle (purchased it as a gift for a relative)
- Tojiro DP VG-10 steel gyuto 210 mm (it has a Western handle)
- Tojiro DP VG-10 steel petty 180 mm
- Tojiro DP VG-10 steel petty 120 mm

I already had from before the Richmond Artifex BD1N steel gyuto (210 mm, Western handle).

First, I want to talk a little bit about the CKTG website and the customer service I received from Mr. and Mrs. Richmond.
If you peruse other kitchen knife/chef knife or cooking related forums, you will read a wide variety of sometimes completely opposite opinions about CKTG and some of their house brand knives.
I read the opinions but also got curious about the knives.
Visted the CKTG website, and the rest - as they say - is history.
Now, I am aware that there are quite a few other options and vendors to get quality Japanese cutlery, but I liked the variety of the knives CKTG offers, both regarding the steel, handles, brands and price range.
After my first purchase I got hooked, and the CKTG excellent customer service was one of the reason I kept going back.
I had 5 transactions so far, and all of them were perfect, the customer service I've received was top notch.

I am not a chef, so my needs and skills are quite modest.
I wanted some upgrade from the soft Chinese or German stainless steels I was using, but did not want to spend a lot of money.
That's why I chose the Richmond Artifex BD1N steel gyuto, which offers a Chinese made knife with a very nice American stainless steel blade, G10 handles and a modest price ($60 at the time of the purchase).
In use it is a really nice knife, easy to maintain. I am sure there are many Japanese knives which are of much higher quality, but of course the price would be much higher too.

Over time I got the itch and after reading a lot about the various Japanese carbon steels I decided to try a Japanese knife with a Blue #2 steel.
I chose the house brand Kohetsu one, because that was the cheapest and also I read several good reviews on various forums.
Once again, that is not a top tier knife, but my needs and skills do not demand such a knife either.
The knife I got was very nice, and while I am not an expert on Japanese cutlery, I found it well finished, with excellent fit, grind. Out of the box it cut great and I am sure after some sharpening it can take an even keener edge. It is a knife what is described as a 'workhorse', so it does not need special babying or advanced knife skills to preserve the edge.

My family members are not used to take some great care of kitchen knives, but appreciate a sharp knife nonetheless, so I decided to surprise them with some Japanese knives which can get sharp, hold an edge reasonably well and are stainless.
This is how I ended up with the Tojiro DP VG-10 kinves and also the Kohetsu HAP40 gyuto. I know that VG-10 is not the best steel one can get and also the Tojiro VG-10 is often looked down by Japanese knife aficionados, but for an average home cook I think the Tojiro VG-10 knives really offer a superior performance compared to the run of the mill Wusthoffs or Henckels or even the Victorinox chef knives.
The Tojiro DP knives are often criticized for their poor or variable fit and finish, but the 3 knives I got were without any such problems. Ergonomics wise the Tojiro handles, especially on the gyutos are often described as 'blocky', with sharp edges. In my experience that is true, but given that the intended grip for those knives is the pinch grip, that would not be a problem when held it that way, and a the lack of additional shaping on the handles most likely contributes to the modest price too. The petty knives have more rounded and quite comfortable handles.

By now you can probably tell that I prefer the Western style (Yo) handles. In stores I have held the traditional Wa handled knives and for whatever reason I just did not like them much.
Also, most of the knives above are the thicker, sturdier 'workhorse' variety of Japanese knives, even though they are thinner than the typical Western chef knives.

I have yet to use these knives long enough to be able to comment on edge holding, but I am sure that they will be better in that regard than the typical Chinese stainless grades or the Krupp 4116 steel you can find in the wast majority of kitchen cutlery today. I have some hopes for the HAP40 being a real winner in that regard.
I am planning to get the Shapton glass stones for sharpening and already got a black ceramic rod for quick touch ups and some nice kangaroo leather strop and diamond paste for stropping.

So that is my initial and so far very limited exposure to the exciting world of Japanese kitchen cutlery.
 
The world of Japanese kitchen cutlery is pretty cool, with some makers/families having hundreds of years of experience. My wife is the cook in our house and I've been trying to interest her in Japanese knives. She mainly uses a very old 6" Henckels utility knife and a custom we picked up many years ago in the same size. Neither holds an edge worth a damn. I bought a Minamoto Akitada Hontanren petty for her birthday, coming up in a few weeks. Should receive it in a few days (shipped from Hong Kong). It has soft iron cladding and Blue #2 core at 62-63 hrc. Japanese magnolia handle with white buffalo horn Kuchiwa. Hope she likes it! I got it from Ryckie at the Burrfection Store. He has a very nice selection.

I've bought a bunch of sharpening supplies from CKTG, but so far no knives. Zero problems with their service. In fact I have an order for their kangaroo strop and a diamond spray arriving soon.
 
3D Anvil said:
The world of Japanese kitchen cutlery is pretty cool, with some makers/families having hundreds of years of experience. My wife is the cook in our house and I've been trying to interest her in Japanese knives. She mainly uses a very old 6" Henckels utility knife and a custom we picked up many years ago in the same size. Neither holds an edge worth a damn. I bought a Minamoto Akitada Hontanren petty for her birthday, coming up in a few weeks. Should receive it in a few days (shipped from Hong Kong). It has soft iron cladding and Blue #2 core at 62-63 hrc. Japanese magnolia handle with white buffalo horn Kuchiwa. Hope she likes it! I got it from Ryckie at the Burrfection Store. He has a very nice selection.

I've bought a bunch of sharpening supplies from CKTG, but so far no knives. Zero problems with their service. In fact I have an order for their kangaroo strop and a diamond spray arriving soon.
Click to expand...
Let's hope she likes the knife. It should give a whole new meaning to 'truly sharp'.
I perused the knives at Burrfection and other vendors. It is very addictive. Had I have more funds, it would require a lot of restraint and willpower to resist all that temptation.

Japanese knives aside, another kitchen cutlery which is worth experiencing is the Chinese Chef knife/cleaver.
A have a few cheap ones I got from the Wok Shop : hat tip and many thanks to Ms. Tane Chan!
While the cleavers I, and based on the reviews, others as well, have received were different from the ones pictured on the website (more polished and also stainless), they are very nice and hold their edge reasonably well.

I am dreaming about getting a CCK slicer, but the $100+ price is a steep one. However, I think it would be more than justified for someone who cooks a lot or who is cooking mostly Chinese or other Asian food. Some of the Chinese chefs are true virtuosos with the cleaver, and the stuff they can do is an art performance in itself.
I remember 'The Look' I got from my family members when the first cleaver showed up from the Wok Shop. Now they use it more often than I. :D
 
I've always had great service from them. I do most my internet ordering at night and they always ship the next AM.
The CCK cleaver takes a very nice edge. It just doesn't hold it. However Japanese Chuka-bocho ("Chinese knife" in Japanese) tends to be too tall for my taste.
I've love a CCK small cleaver in AS.

While Tojiros can have F&F issues, their heat treatment is considered better and more consistent than Shun Classics. In the J-knife world (in the US), the blade itself is considered paramount. A little glitch in the scale fit won't change that.
Of my 3 Tojiros, 2 have F&F issues. There is an overgrind in a paring knife with an overgrind, so it is just barely a bird's beak. Also in a petty knife the scales don't quite fit.
 
The Tojiro DP series offers a great blade and so-so finish. You can get perfect scale fit, ot slightly off.
The Tojiro powder steel R2 series have much better f&f consistency.
 
I was looking at the various chuka-bochos at various sites. I read that they are superior to the CCK, but for a price.
Those Suiens and especially the Sugimotos sure look nice!
Same goes for the Jknives with better steel options, better fit & finish, overall better execution.
I know they exist, but I have to do with what I have.
And what I recently got in my shopping spree is a big jump in quality for me, even if most are considered only entry level knives.

I guess I got lucky with Tojiros I got. I am not complaining. I also wonder if over the years they have improved.
Right now, I think these entry level knives will fit my needs. I hope the HAP40 gyuto I gifted is above entry level, the feedback on various forums seems to confirm that.

What I like about these knives is that they all seem to have good balance and excellent performance for me.
Of course one man's 'excellent' could be another one's 'poor'...
As I said, I am in no way an expert and my needs and skills are limited, so take my opinion for what it's worth.
 
Oh, and did I mention that I love my Richmond Artifex II gyuto in BDN1 steel?
While technically it is just a 'Japanese style knife', it is a really tough knife with relatively thin profile and it takes a lot of abuse (of course, to a limit).
It is marketed as a chef knife for line cooks working in a busy commercial kitchen, so for less experienced home cooks it is also a great choice. 👍

👍
 
I have 3 knives from the Tojiro DP line and have never been disappointed in the steel, or the fit and finish.
They are basic, yet ultimately dependable, sharpen easily and hold an edge fairly well.
I don't consider them "entry level" knives in any way. They are simple, basic, and uncomplicated, hence the lower price.

One thing I do on most kitchen knives (including my Tojiros) is to slightly round the spine to make the pinch grip more comfortable. You only have to do the first inch and a half or so. And don't try to make it "round", you only have to knock the corners off.
 
I like simple yet functional knives. Mora, Old Timers, USA made basic Camillus knives.
I agree with you that while many Jknife enthusiasts consider the Tojiro DP knives an 'entry level' line, they are great knives on their own right.
To me they are not even basic, they have a sophisticated enough aesthetics and good enough performance to be considered 'classy'.
 
IIRC Mark has visited the Tojiro factory and he said the handles are done by an elderly woman - probably the matriarch or that generation.
It's a family run operation.
So he didn't comment on the F&F issues.
 
Knife arrived today. Very pleased with the quality. Sharpening was a bit of a disappointment, given that they claim their knives are hand sharpened by a 5th generation master. Came in around 180 BESS. I set a new bevel at 14° on a Shapton Glass 1000, then refined on a Venev 800/1200. Stropped on denim loaded with Flitz polish. Down to 80 BESS.

Minamoto Akitada Hontanren 150mm.jpg
 
This a really nice knife! Your wife should be pleased with it.
Not only it looks great but also should be very sharp and the Blue #2 will hold its edge very well. 👍
👍
If she is not used to this type of knives, make sure she gets used to how to hold securely the knife, because the sharp corner at the heel can easily nick you if you are careless.
Do you plan to seal the area around the tang with epoxy or superglue?
 
3D Anvil, that looks like a sweet knife! Blue #2 will take a wickedly sharp edge and feel sharper than White steels will. For carbon, I prefer Blue #2 or Aogami over White steels. Handle looks really nicely done as well!

Many people use Beeswax, silicon, epoxy or hot melt glue to seal up that gap if they want. Some come sealed already though?

It is common for Japanese knives to come with a very rudimentary edge; often around a 1000-1200 grit finish. The Japanese assume everyone knows how to properly sharpen the knife when they receive it and will put the edge they want on it (toothy, polished, mid level, etc), so they don't spend much time on the edge that it is shipped with, although there are a few exceptions. It is also very common that this factory edge may chip more or be weak, so I always tell people to do a full stone sharpening once you get the knife to get rid of any burrs/weakened steel. Some of the places selling the Japanese knives either sharpen everything they get in or offer a finish sharpening service for a little more $$ if people don't feel comfortable doing it themselves.

For many Japanese knife companies, sharpening to them also means grinding/refining the blade bevels, not just the edge itself. I think this is a hold over from the swords and single bevel knives since the blade road was sharpened down to the very edge (convex grind/edge) on stones after the rough grinding was done. On the stamped knives, they are often machine ground, machine finished and then sharpened. On the blades that are forged first, they forge the profiles and some of the bevel in and then they grind the remainder of the blade bevels on large water cooled stone wheels (like 4-5" wide and 36" diameter) and refine from there with machines. Others use the large wheels, and then do hand work on the blade, which is often called sharpening since they are working on the blade road. In your case, the knife has the migaki finish (lengthwise scratches) instead of the machine made vertical finish (satin finish), so I am guessing they did some hand sanding/stoning on the blade and included the edge bevel with that process, but left as is and didn't do finer sharpening on it. You hear about knives "sharpened" by some of the famous knifemakers in Japan, but they aren't always referring only to the edge itself, but the whole blade face and edge. Look at the Konosuke Kaiju; they mention the sharpener and talk about the whole blade face being prepped and stone finished by hand. So often sharpening is not just the edge itself, but the bevels leading to the edge and the blade surface. These knives are usually better sharpening wise, but may not always be perfect. I had some Konosuke Blue #2 honyaki gyuto's that I got without handles and all of them needed some sharpening, despite a near mirror finish/sharpening on the blade itself.
 
Littleknife,
CKTG gets some bad reviews just like every store does occasionally. Many of those older complaints are from a long time ago, but any complaint against CKTG often got blown way out of proportion to get business to go to other stores back then. I was around and getting into Japanese knives when that all happened (I did custom rehandles and stuff for CKTG back around 2012-2015 IIRC, but was a customer for a while before that and got knives from other stores back then too). Many of the issues were between 2 US based sharpeners not getting along, one of which was associated with CKTG (on the forums, had his own line of stones, was a big competitor in the US sharpening wise to the other sharpener and did a lot of work for/with CKTG). There weren't many US based waterstone/kitchen knife suppliers or forums back then as there are now and the market was just opening up to that, so there was a lot of competition when the stores were trying to grow. There was a knife brand CKTG carried that had some F&F complaints (uneven blade grinds on the blade road, so when doing heavy flattening/thinning, there were low spots that when the blade road was flattened out, caused a recurve in the edge), but they were mostly found later by the other sharpener if people were trying to do a full sharpening/blade road flattening, etc as well. For most people, they wouldn't use the knife enough to even notice the issue, but for the high end chefs, they noticed it and it took a little while for the company to correct the issue when manufacturing. I haven't seen the same complaints repeated much lately for that brand or CKTG lately.

Since Japanese knives were just becoming popular in the US market, the "wabi sabi" concept took some getting used to. Rounding spines/choils was not really done on much of anything back then, except maybe the really high end stuff. Handles were an afterthought and viewed as disposable (wa handles), so they were often cheaply made, plastic ferrules, roughly finished wood, etc. Western handles were rougher and had more gaps back then. Blade grinds were not as flat/true as they are now and more imperfections were accepted by the manufacturers. With a forged inexpensive blade and a cheap wa handle, things often weren't in alignment and there were complaints in general. People in the US were used to Henckels, Wustoff F&F and weren't happy with the rougher Japanese esthetic or having to sharpen their own knife out of the box. Konosuke had better F&F than most brands even back then and it took a while for the other companies to catch up and make an effort to have better F&F. Western style handles have come a long way since back in 2010, too, with more temp stable materials being used and better handle fit and finish, less rough edges, etc. If you look at many of the Japanese knife makers now, they are offering nicer handles and eventually customized handles, different colors, etc once they saw the demand in the US. I did a TON of custom handles for Japanese kitchen knives between 2012 and 2015. The nicer stock handles with buffalo horn and better sanded wood and installed more precisely were nice, but people in the US wanted larger handles, different shapes, more water stable materials (Health inspections!!!), etc. Japan has really upped their game in the last several years in terms of fit and finish! It is expected at the cheaper price level, but many only need a little tuning if anything! Couple minutes with files and sandpaper to ease the edges on the spine and choil mainly.

On one of the main kitchen knife forums back then (no longer in existence), if you posted a good review of CKTG or a CKTG product, you were often accused of being a shill, even if you had nothing to do with the store other than having a good experience product/service wise. If you posted a good review of another store (or the same product sold by another store, sometimes under that stores name), people were fine with it, so there was an obvious bias from many people. If anyone had a connection to CKTG back then (handles, sharpening, custom knives), and said anything good about the store, they were automatically assumed to be a shill for CKTG by some and often banned and silenced on the forums that both groups were on. Each group made their own forum, but even to this day, CKTG is still censored out on one of the newer forums after the older forums went away. It was a shame that there was such a divide. The Japanese kitchen knife community was much smaller back then and it was a shame to see that rift/divide and have people not continue to communicate and share their knowledge and help each other out. Many of the issues stemmed from growing pains from the Japanese companies and bringing their F&F up to western standards.

The original Artifex series was US made and made with a thicker edge to be more durable for those in a pro kitchen and those used to western steels, but in a more Japanese profile. The customer was able to try out a different profile, harder, finer grained steel that took and held a nicer edge, but not have to worry about durability edge wise as much. They cut pretty well, but the customer could thin them down if they wanted to, but they served as a mid point between western kitchen knives and Japanese kitchen knives with the wickedly fine edges. Mark started to have some other Artifex and other lines made in Japan after he phased out Lamson producing the knives. Mark goes to Japan to speak with companies periodically and has been able to get companies to make stuff for him due to his connections and relationships he built up over the years, so more doors were opened to him.

So many of the complaints you hear about were the bad blood between the 2 sharpeners, the F&F issue as Japanese makers were getting into the US market in a bigger way (until they caught up with the times!), complaints about the Artifex series being too thick behind the edge and not caring what it was designed for/marketed as and accusing anyone of liking a CKTG product of being a shill. CKTG has always had excellent customer service, pricing and selection!

Tojiro VG-10 is pretty decent, nicer than the Shuns. CKTG also sells the Yahiko, which I believe is made by Tojiro as well. Many people new to the Japanese knives go to the wa handle, kurouchi finished, inexpensive blades, not realizing that these have usually the lowest F&F (chunky blade grinds, cheap handles, etc). Stepping up to Fujiwara, Tojiro, Kohetsu, Tojiro DP, Harukaze, etc is a huge jump performance and F&F wise over the cheaper Tosa style knives that are much more rustic! I love my Kohetsu Blue #2 western bolsterless, great handle size, too! I prefered the older Artifex handle size over the newer one and I still like AEB-L over BDN-1, but the newer Artifex are a little thinner behind the edge and do perform better than the unmodified original Artifex from Lamson!
 
3D Anvil said:
Thanks! Is it recommended to seal the tang?
Click to expand...
You do not need to seal the tang.

I have never sealed a tang on a Japanese handled knife and have never had a knife damaged as a result.
The concern some people have is water getting into the handle and causing corrosion.
Proper care, cleaning, and drying the knife eliminates that concern.
Well made knives have a very minimal gap in that area and should be very tight fitting.
IF this is a concern to you then please consider a food safe option.
 
Great post, Taz! That explains a lot. Honestly, the knife looked like it had little-to-no secondary bevel at all. Even so, it was sharper than most kitchen knives just because it's so thin behind the edge. I could get it hair-whittling sharp, but there's really no point as my wife will take that off in about 10 seconds by scraping the edge sideways across the cutting board. 😢 At least I've finally gotten her to stop cutting on ceramic plates and metal cookie sheets. We'll just have to see how it goes. It may be too delicate for her.
 
Yeah, they take their blades down super thin!! With the harder steels, they can do that, as well as being polished up to a much higher grit! With a Henckel or Wustoff or Victorinox, if you go that thin, the edge just rolls/folds over. Steels will re align the edge on those, but after a while, it tends to break off due to metal fatigue. With the Japanese stuff, thinner, harder edges that stay sharp longer is the norm and you can take many of their steels up to crazy sharp levels, but they don't stand up to the abuse that many give them. I have a Tanaka Sekiso Blue #2 gyuto. In a 9 month period since the initial sharpening when I bought it, I only had to strop it 3 times (1 micron CBN on balsa strop, around 5-10 strokes per side for each stropping session) in that 9 month period using it to cook dinner 3-5 nights a week at home. Each time I stropped, it would stick into my end grain walnut cutting board for a few days afterwards. I only had to take it to the stones at the 9 month point because I did a new handle and acid etched it. The acid will effect the edge steel just like the rest of the blade! Thats why I never understood on FiF why they sharpen and then acid etch so often?? Etch, then sharpen, or sharpen, etch, touch up the edge!!

There are a ton of great Japanese knife stores online now. I would steer away from Amazon, Wish, Aliexpress, etc since many of those are not true Japanese knives, but cheaply made imitations. Some are VG10 made in Japan and OK, but most aren't that great. Same with the water stones on Amazon; stick with a name brand stone regardless of where you get it from! Ebay has real Japanese knives mixed in with the junk, and I have found many Japanese kitchen knife makers sell direct or through Japanese stores on Ebay, so you may be able to get items that US based (or European based) stores do not have.
 
I did quite a fair bit of business with CKTG a few years back when I was getting into kitchen knives. Mainly sharpening supplies - Shapton water stones, balsa strops and diamond strop compounds, diamond plates, that sort of thing.

I did get a couple of their house brand Richmond Artifex knives in AEB-L - chef and paring. Good solid value in knives. I use them often. They seem a bit more robust than my Japanese knives, but also less refined. Each have their roles.
 
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