Japenese Waterstones

The Naniwa stones are a top brand but I would not recommend the Super stones for knife sharpening. They create a very smooth and polished edge that is great for straight razors but not so much for knives that need some tooth to the edge. Naniwa Pro (aka Chosera) are much better suited for knife sharpening offering more cut an less polish resulting in a more aggress edge. They are also harder and help prevent gouging or digging into the stonecwith the knife edge.

After using many waterstones I have come to prefer the Shapton Glass stones for most of my sharpening needs. I sharpen a wide range of steels on a wide range of tools and they produce very consistent results across this spectrum.

What you pick can depend a bit on your needs so if you could describe your knives and what steels they use that would really help.
 
AlexT808 said:
What is the best brand of waterstones to get a sharp edge? Im currently thinking about a ninwa superstone.
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Hi,
I read you already have some diamonds/stones ...
have you ever raised a burr?

If you're willing to talk about how you sharpen in detail,
I'm pretty sure I/we can help you get a bit sharper with the equipment you already own.


New stones are no guarantee that you'll get sharper than you are currently,
I know I've been there not too long ago (past 2 years),
just getting new stones doesn't magically change what you do with those stones to sharpen
but if thats what it takes to get you to adjust your sharpening procedure :)

Maybe all you need is to deburr using a really high angle,
Shearing off a Burr Using High Angle Passes - Steel Drake
but raising a burr is kind of a prerequisite :) at least in the beginning, when you're first learning to sharpen

Maybe these shed some light,
A Tutorial on Burr Based Sharpening - Steel Drake
A Tutorial on Three Step Sharpening - Steel Drake
 
Japenese
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For all that this part of the world has done for the edge tool world :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: (among many, many other things) I feel it is important to show respect and so take the time to spell their nationality correctly.

Please.

Japanese
 
Actually, for actual sharpening (read not rough grinding) waterstones are going to be the most difficult to get high sharpness as you constantly have to deal with loose abrasive plowing into your apex which equals blunting. Fixed abrasives like diamond plates or vitrified bond aluminum oxide/silicon carbide will be much easier to attain high sharpness.
 
Maggot Brain said:
Actually, for actual sharpening (read not rough grinding) waterstones are going to be the most difficult to get high sharpness as you constantly have to deal with loose abrasive plowing into your apex which equals blunting. Fixed abrasives like diamond plates or vitrified bond aluminum oxide/silicon carbide will be much easier to attain high sharpness.
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I disagree, just hold the angle and it gets sharp, I think its just slower then the other abrasives you mentioned so its easier for angle inconsistencies to add up and round the apex, but at the same time if ya pull it off you will have a wayyy more polished edge that can have more precision then the deep scratches made by the the other abrasives you mentioned.

Also curious, what types of stones did you mean by vitrified alumina/SiC?
 
I am not aware of any vitrified stones that come in anything finer than a medium grit - 600-800 ANSI max.

If the stone is blunting the edge from being too soft or loose, finish with a trailing pass.

Waterstones definitely have a longer learning curve but also produce great results and tend to be very fast.

Of the ones I own I like the Suzuki Ya house brand and if you can find them on sale the Norton's are pretty good with exception of their 220 grit. Even that work well enough just don't scrub with it so much, use a trailing pass instead and apply more force.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Also curious, what types of stones did you mean by vitrified alumina/SiC?
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Something along the lines of Norton's Crystolon/India, whereby using oil as lubricant is needed to keep the stones from glazing over and cutting aggression high.

The problem with trailing passes to get around loose grit plowing into the apex is that it tends to drag up a burr which will cause your edge to fail quickly in use.

AlexT808 said:
1095 440c 83r13mov 1428cn Aus8 154cm and VG10
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AlexT808 said:
Not any super steels but 440c 83r13 Aus8 154cm 1428cn ATS34 1095
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In all honesty, with those steels I think you'd be well served with a coarse/fine Crystolon combo stone along with an Atoma 1200 to finish the apex.
 
I don't think there is one brand that is the best. There are certain grits of stones with in brands that are better than others. I like Shapton pro stones as a splash and go option I've never tired glass stones but have always heard good things about them. Nubatama is also an amazing brand with lots of options but difficult to get.
 
It is worth noting that 'best' brand is entirely subjective as we all have our favorites, but moreso the question is 'best stone for the intended purpose'. If I am fixing a damaged edge or changing geometry on knives with steel like you listed (no higher carbide stuff), I like the Sigma Power 120 or Sigma Power Select II 240... but that is just me.

Ideally you have a set of stones with something like the Sigma 120 whereby it has a rather strong bond so you can do the down and dirty repair jobs and changing geometry work, then something along the lines of 300-1200 grit in order to reset the edge bevel... the last step would be using something like a higher grit diamond plate to sharpen the apex without worry about loose grit damaging apex.

Realistically though, I could do just about anything I needed with just the Sigma Power 120 and Atoma 1200. I can get the edge set using scrubbing strokes with the 120 without causing damage (light touch, no overgrinding to form heavy burr), then I can refine the apex with edge leading strokes on the Atoma 1200. Despite what is often recommended, having too many stones can only cause you more trouble... it's the indian not the arrow.

I believe if you wanted to put together a nice set without dropping too much dime, picking up Sigma Power 120 & 1000 along with Atoma 120 from Tools From Japan would be your best bang for your buck. These will work great for all your steels, wear incredibly slowly and should last a lifetime or two and require very minimal maintennance to keep the stones flat. Just be aware that it can take a few weeks to get your order from them if you don't pay for expedited shipping as it's on the slowboat from China (err I mean Japan).
 
Maggot Brain said:
Something along the lines of Norton's Crystolon/India, whereby using oil as lubricant is needed to keep the stones from glazing over and cutting aggression high.

The problem with trailing passes to get around loose grit plowing into the apex is that it tends to drag up a burr which will cause your edge to fail quickly in use.





In all honesty, with those steels I think you'd be well served with a coarse/fine Crystolon combo stone along with an Atoma 1200 to finish the apex.
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Right on brotha, Those are sintered stones not vitrified. the abrasives are fused without binders or minimal binders, very hard bond and high porosity so its clogs with swarf and needs to be dressed at times since it doesnt reveal fresh grit. but it resists dishing.

The vitrified bond is a glass like bond, used in higher end, watersoaking stones like the nubatama, gesshin, and other stones in varying types of bond hardness, cutting speeds and dishing.

these are different then the magnesia and resin bonds.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Right on brotha, Those are sintered stones not vitrified. the abrasives are fused without binders or minimal binders, very hard bond and high porosity so its clogs with swarf and needs to be dressed at times since it doesnt reveal fresh grit. but it resists dishing.

The vitrified bond is a glass like bond, used in higher end, watersoaking stones like the nubatama, gesshin, and other stones in varying types of bond hardness, cutting speeds and dishing.

these are different then the magnesia and resin bonds.
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10-4, got the terms mixed up but yeah you are spot on. The Nubatama 24 grit I have I believe is vitrified, extremely hard bond... the only thing I can do to get it to release abrasive is high force applied to extremely small contact areas on simpler steels. Used in the right way this stone is an absolute pig, I've used it to alter blade/handle profiles with great success.
 
Maggot Brain said:
Something along the lines of Norton's Crystolon/India, whereby using oil as lubricant is needed to keep the stones from glazing over and cutting aggression high.

The problem with trailing passes to get around loose grit plowing into the apex is that it tends to drag up a burr which will cause your edge to fail quickly in use.





In all honesty, with those steels I think you'd be well served with a coarse/fine Crystolon combo stone along with an Atoma 1200 to finish the apex.
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I personally love "shapton pro" series stones. They are hard, they cut any steel, and resist dishing. Even the lower grit stones are really hard "which is a good thing since lower grit stones tend to dish like a mother".
The thing maggot brain said about raising a bur is incorrect. You have to raise a bur on one side before switching sides anyway. You should also have a strop handy to wipe that remaining bur off after you have finished sharpening. I like to load mine with green buffing compound :). Go for either Shapton pro or naniwa pro since they are basically the same thing! Naniwa just made a shapton equivalent ceramic stone and gave it the same name. From what I hear, you can't go wrong with either. Hope this helped! :D
 
James Dawley said:
I personally love "shapton pro" series stones. They are hard, they cut any steel, and resist dishing. Even the lower grit stones are really hard "which is a good thing since lower grit stones tend to dish like a mother".
The thing maggot brain said about raising a bur is incorrect. You have to raise a bur on one side before switching sides anyway. You should also have a strop handy to wipe that remaining bur off after you have finished sharpening. I like to load mine with green buffing compound :). Go for either Shapton pro or naniwa pro since they are basically the same thing! Naniwa just made a shapton equivalent ceramic stone and gave it the same name. From what I hear, you can't go wrong with either. Hope this helped! :D
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You should never just work one side until a burr is formed, it's a good way to get a lopsided edge. Instead, work both sides evenly until a burr forms.

Shapton Pro and Naniwa Pro stones are completely different from each other. Different abrasive, different bond, etc. The Shapton Pro stones are also formulated for basic carbon and stainless steels, still good stones but saying they will cut any steel is stretching there ability rather far.
 
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