Jay Fisher style copied

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Sep 8, 2016
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Just saw the cover of Knives Magazine 2017 Cover (Won't allow me to attach a picture) and saw what I thought was a Jay Fisher Blade. Come to find out it's made by a maker Steven Ramos. Never heard of him, but I can certainly see who inspired his style. I emailed him to see what he charges out of curiosity. Someone else said he's in the 3k range.

I know there's nothing new under the sun, and its hard to create new knife designs that havent already been done, but this amount of copying seems a bit like plagiarism. Anyone else have an opinion on copying another's style so closely?

I don't own any of Jay's knives or know him just to throw that out there, other than seeing pictures of his knives over the years and noticing their very distinct styling. Very few guns I'd spend that amount of money on, so knives that pass a grand are out of my range.
 
I certainly see a resemblance to some of Jay's knives, but I'm sure you could say that about some of Jay's knives when compared to other makers as well.

Jay's stuff is all over the place. I don't know that you can say he has a particular style or motif.

Perhaps the use of the polished bolsters, but that particular style predates Mr Fisher's knives by quite a bit.
 
I certainly see a resemblance to some of Jay's knives, but I'm sure you could say that about some of Jay's knives when compared to other makers as well.

Jay's stuff is all over the place. I don't know that you can say he has a particular style or motif.

Perhaps the use of the polished bolsters, but that particular style predates Mr Fisher's knives by quite a bit.

Yes, that "curved handle" style isn't original to either...who used to do that? "Big name" guy...cant think of it...
 
A lot of designs are inspired by other designs and those where inspired by some before them.

That's just how things work.

As long as it's not direct copies, blatant copies.

Humans have been making knives for thousands of years...... Not really all that much that hasn't been done before a number of times.
 
I'm Steven Ramos and I made the knife that is on the cover of "Knives 2017". While a number of great makers have influenced me, Jay Fisher has been my biggest influence in my work. But to say I "copied" Jay Fisher mitigates all the hard work I've put into my craft the past few years I've been making knives. I am completely self taught and sacrificed much in pursuit of making the best knives I possibly can. I have put off relationships, missed out on experiences and have poured every penny I've earned back into buying more materials and equipment leaving me, more often than I would like to admit, with two digit numbers in my checking account. I don't even own a car. I have thrown away thousands of dollars worth of ruined steel learning how to make knives and how NOT to make knives. Accusing me of copying another artist's style basically says "You cheated and didn't work for or earn any of your success".

I have the utmost respect for Mr. Fisher, and all artists for that matter, and would never copy any of his work. I never have, and never will take one of Jay's designs, replicate line for line and claim it as my own. I have far too much integrity and respect for the craft and Jay to do that. All of my knives are original designs drawn and created entirely by myself.

I don't think you can copy someone's "style". Would all the, literally, dozens and dozens of incredibly skilled Loveless makers be no-good copycats then? What about those who make Hibben style Bowies? Are they just cheaters too? Should I make the same Damascus sub-hilt with stag handle that so many others make? Who are they copying?

The fact of the matter is, every artist is influenced by those that came before them. Ludwig Van Beethoven was influenced by Wolfgang Amadeaus Mozart. And Mozart was influenced by Johann Sebastian Bach and Joseph Hayden among others. Both Beethoven and Mozart have written beautiful piano concertos and full symphonies. While they are two different composers, their music is very similar. No one calls Beethoven a copycat.

To be completely honest, I don't know what, for some people, exactly makes my knives TOO similar to Jay's. Is it the mirror finish? Bolsters at both ends of the knife? Tapered tangs or file work? Maybe my gemstone handles? If these things make me no-good copycat, what should I change to separate myself from other makers? Jay Fisher is an OUTSTANDING craftsman but he didn't invent any of the features I mentioned. I'm very proud of what I have accomplished in the four and half years, at the time of this posting, I have been making knives. I have worked my fingers to the bone and have been pushed to the edge of tears just trying to figure out how to improve my work by even 1%.



Forgive me if I sound overly defensive or hostile; that is not my intent. I only wish to politely defend myself and my hard work. I wish all of you the best as my fellow enthusiasts and craftsmen!
 
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I sometimes see makers make a note of where their influence came from, that is a nice touch, example - hunter in the xxxxxxx style,
thus explaining the design style origin & paying homage to the ones that inspired you.


1234,,,:)
 
I'm Steven Ramos and I made the knife that is on the cover of "Knives 2017". While a number of great makers have influenced me, Jay Fisher has been my biggest influence in my work. But to say I "copied" Jay Fisher mitigates all the hard work I've put into my craft the past few years I've been making knives.

Hey, welcome to the forum and congrats on the cover! Have the books runneth over yet?

I don't think you have to worry too much about any negative press here. These threads seem to pop up on occasion and generally you see the sort of responses that you see here.

We get it. Now if you were to make an exact copy of a Marfione Matrix... of course you'd be guilty of copying Zero Tolerance. :D
 
Thanks for welcome and the congratulations! I am greatly honored and humbled on making the cover of "Knives". I'm glad there are other artists who understand. Most people are very complimentary of my work but every now and then I get accused of "copying" or "stealing" Jay's work. I appreciate the camaraderie in the forum.
 
I don't think you have to worry too much about any negative press here. These threads seem to pop up on occasion and generally you see the sort of responses that you see here.

Particularly from a "member" who joins to make a single post, then an hour later leaves, never to revisit the site again.
 
A lot of designs are inspired by other designs and those where inspired by some before them.

That's just how things work.

As long as it's not direct copies, blatant copies.

Humans have been making knives for thousands of years...... Not really all that much that hasn't been done before a number of times.

This^^^^^
 
Pics or GTFO?

Just kidding, but this thread is worthless without pics?

OK, so there was no emote.
 
I'm Steven Ramos and I made the knife that is on the cover of "Knives 2017". While a number of great makers have influenced me, Jay Fisher has been my biggest influence in my work. But to say I "copied" Jay Fisher mitigates all the hard work I've put into my craft the past few years I've been making knives. I am completely self taught and sacrificed much in pursuit of making the best knives I possibly can. I have put off relationships, missed out on experiences and have poured every penny I've earned back into buying more materials and equipment leaving me, more often than I would like to admit.

Very well said, thank you. I don't get over to the custom forum often, my wallet can't take it. It's refreshing to see the passion that sparks great knives. People question a 3k knife like they understand the hours that go into a piece like that, but rush out to drop a grand on a "gold class" production griptilian. The way you honourably and professionally defend yourself here, and the quality of your knives, should be no surprise that the long hours lead to great success. Congrats on making the cover, and welcome to the forum!
 
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Thank you very much. I feel very welcomed here and appreciate the kind remarks I've already received here!
 
One post and everyroadleadshome never returns. I wouldn't sweat it srknives88. Probably friend/family/rabid collector of Jay Fisher's. Jay's been on here before and seems like a nice guy and certainly wouldn't be put off by your homage :)
 
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Thanks for welcome and the congratulations! I am greatly honored and humbled on making the cover of "Knives". I'm glad there are other artists who understand. Most people are very complimentary of my work but every now and then I get accused of "copying" or "stealing" Jay's work. I appreciate the camaraderie in the forum.

Congrats Steven. Yes, I can see the influence of Jay Fisher, and I too love his work and it is hard not to be inspired by him. My main go to is Gil Hibben I guess, and Jody Samson, who I knew personally. I appreciate all the effort and hard work you have put into your art. I know we have chatted on FB a few times, as I have seen your knives there. Good Luck and stay bladed
 
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