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Jelly Roll Billet
- Thread starter jim moyer
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2001
- Messages
- 3,623
I don't have any pictures but I have made a few jelly rolls. The hardest part for me is getting the roll started good and tight so I take my time at the beginning and get everything tapped down tight to make the center of the roll, once you get a roll or 2 its pretty easy keeping it nice and tight, big channel locks and lots of flux and heat. I usually take my bar down to about 1/8" x 1 1/2" before I start the roll and once its rolled up I use a press with squaring dies to keep everything nice and tight during the welding.Another thing when welding in the dies, keep rolling it so it tightens up as it squeezes together.. I know I'm not much help, would be a lot easier to show you.
Good luck,
Bill
Good luck,
Bill
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2005
- Messages
- 1,158
Here is what I am up against Bill. I started with an 11 layer billet and took to 1/8th thick. Made a 3 inch roll. Cut the roll off and drew to about 1 inch in diameter and drilled 1/2 inch holes down the center 1/3rd through on opposite sides and flattened to get the following billet.
Forged the blade and all the tapers to near finish and did a flat grind and a test etch and this is where I ended up. Most of the pattern erased. (No cold shunts or inclusions)
So am I not using enough layers or drilling holes to shallow or just expecting too much of a jellyroll for additional manipulation.
Thanks,
Jim
Forged the blade and all the tapers to near finish and did a flat grind and a test etch and this is where I ended up. Most of the pattern erased. (No cold shunts or inclusions)
So am I not using enough layers or drilling holes to shallow or just expecting too much of a jellyroll for additional manipulation.
Thanks,
Jim
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2001
- Messages
- 3,623
Jim, sounds more like a pool & eye pattern when you start drilling holes. In order to get that I make up a multible layer billet 10-20 layers then draw it out to about 1" x 1/2" thick, then start drilling holes about 1/8" deep on both sides real, real, real close to each other. then go back to the forge and heat it up and flatten it out trying not to elongate very much just pound it down spreading it out. When I get the bar looking pretty good and flat I cut the profile in, you can forge it but this will change the tip area look from the rest of the billet. Anyway, once the tip area is cut in to the shape I want I then forge in the bevels pretty close to finished, this will force the pool& eye pattern deep into the bar so when you finish grind the bevels you won't grind out the pattern.
The jelly roll pattern is just 2 layers for me. I start out with 1" of 1080 and a 1" of 15n20, weld it up and then stretch it out to 1/8" x 1 1/4" or 1 1/2". Now start rolling that up. Once you get it rolled up and forge welded, I draw it out to a square bar. I usually make up 2 jelly roll bars at a time so I'll have enough steel when I'm finished. Take the 2 square bars and cut them into 4 equal pieces, now stack these together in a cube and reweld. Draw that out to a 1" bar, cut into 4 equal pieces again, recube and weld it up. That will give you 16 jelly rolls. If you only want 9 jelly rolls you can make a 9 piece cube bar to start with and then you can forget about restacking again. Draw that out to a 1 1/8" square bar and accordian cut it using the band saw. Take it back to the forge and at welding heats slowly flatten it out. This can turn all this time and work into scrap if you flatten to fast and tear the billet apart. A lot more work in those jelly roll bars.
I know theres a bunch of ways to do it, but thats how I go at it.
Good luck,
Bill
The jelly roll pattern is just 2 layers for me. I start out with 1" of 1080 and a 1" of 15n20, weld it up and then stretch it out to 1/8" x 1 1/4" or 1 1/2". Now start rolling that up. Once you get it rolled up and forge welded, I draw it out to a square bar. I usually make up 2 jelly roll bars at a time so I'll have enough steel when I'm finished. Take the 2 square bars and cut them into 4 equal pieces, now stack these together in a cube and reweld. Draw that out to a 1" bar, cut into 4 equal pieces again, recube and weld it up. That will give you 16 jelly rolls. If you only want 9 jelly rolls you can make a 9 piece cube bar to start with and then you can forget about restacking again. Draw that out to a 1 1/8" square bar and accordian cut it using the band saw. Take it back to the forge and at welding heats slowly flatten it out. This can turn all this time and work into scrap if you flatten to fast and tear the billet apart. A lot more work in those jelly roll bars.
I know theres a bunch of ways to do it, but thats how I go at it.
Good luck,
Bill
- Joined
- Dec 3, 1999
- Messages
- 9,437
Damn-it, I typed out a reply yesterday, and it's gone!!!! 
Anyway, I guess I'll try again.
I start off with 3-6 layers. I stack several pieces of 1084, then several of 15N20, so that each "layer" is actually several pieces of the same steel.
I forge weld, then draw the billet out to a long taper. 3/16" to about 3/8" (around 1-1/4" wide)
This will make it roll easier.
Grind all the heavy scale off of both sides. It will form some new scale when you're heating it to roll it, but it will be much cleaner and less likely to have inclusions or cold-shuts this way.
Roll it up real tight, then cut the handle off and weld it onto the center of the roll.
I either weld up in squaring dies, or the "corner" where my anvil face and shelf meet, by rolling the billet into that corner while wrapp'a'tapping it with a 2.5 lb. hammer.
Once it's welded, you have to open it up. I'm not really following the hole drilling idea. If you're going to just drill holes, why go to the trouble of rolling a billet? I'd rather just do a pool and eye pattern with a straight laminate if going that route.... IMHO, you need to open it up so that the end grain shows. Most would go for an accordian cut, or a deep ladder. I prefer a 45 degree stacked loaf... more pattern, less waste.
Sounds like the last part is your only real "problem" Jim.
Here's a fighter I made for the ABS Reno show last year with a jelly roll
Anyway, I guess I'll try again.
I start off with 3-6 layers. I stack several pieces of 1084, then several of 15N20, so that each "layer" is actually several pieces of the same steel.
I forge weld, then draw the billet out to a long taper. 3/16" to about 3/8" (around 1-1/4" wide)
This will make it roll easier.
Grind all the heavy scale off of both sides. It will form some new scale when you're heating it to roll it, but it will be much cleaner and less likely to have inclusions or cold-shuts this way.
Roll it up real tight, then cut the handle off and weld it onto the center of the roll.
I either weld up in squaring dies, or the "corner" where my anvil face and shelf meet, by rolling the billet into that corner while wrapp'a'tapping it with a 2.5 lb. hammer.
Once it's welded, you have to open it up. I'm not really following the hole drilling idea. If you're going to just drill holes, why go to the trouble of rolling a billet? I'd rather just do a pool and eye pattern with a straight laminate if going that route.... IMHO, you need to open it up so that the end grain shows. Most would go for an accordian cut, or a deep ladder. I prefer a 45 degree stacked loaf... more pattern, less waste.
Sounds like the last part is your only real "problem" Jim.
Here's a fighter I made for the ABS Reno show last year with a jelly roll
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2001
- Messages
- 44
what kind of press did ya buy? i have had my claiborne press 2 months
and really enjoy having it in the shop, im am working on a copy of your first 22
degree billet now, should have it finished by this weekend,hope it looks as good as yours, if so i will send ya pic. bb
and really enjoy having it in the shop, im am working on a copy of your first 22
degree billet now, should have it finished by this weekend,hope it looks as good as yours, if so i will send ya pic. bb
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2005
- Messages
- 1,158
killerknives said:
My Nephew Tony Moyer built one for me and will deliver on the 12th. I haven't seen it yet, but since he built my rolling mill I know it will be a good one since I haven't broke it yet
. Looking forward to seeing your billet when done. All billets look good to me, it is just when they don't look like they are suppose to in my mind that bugs me.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2005
- Messages
- 1,158
Nowicki said:
Here is a link for the mill and the contact info is on the bottom for Hugh McDonald http://www.anvilfire.com/bookrev/mcdonald/mill2.htm