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golok

golok

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Oct 20, 2000
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I heard from knife friends that some knife makers have a waiting period for their knives as long as 5 years.

Is that possible? So if you are the 200th person to order a knife, and if the maker only produces only 4 knives a month, the waiting period would be about 4.1 years!

That takes a lot of patience. Sometimes, I wonder where some of these knifenuts get all the patience.

To me, a waiting period of two years is long enough, anything longer than that would be time better spent on getting another excellent knife from another hardworking knifeman.

How does a knifemaker keep track of his clients? I suppose it's easy if you have a diary or a computer.

What if the client himself forgets that he has ordered a knife and has shifted house or moved to another state?

Or worse, he has changed hobbies?
 
Ed Fowler.Golok,I'm not even sure how long I will have to wait but wait I will.It is rare to see Ed's knives in the after market so for me patience is a must and besides Ed cracks me up.:D
 
When someone says they have a 5 year waiting period, I suggest you look at who they are. A few "good" business men have been around long enough to build up that kind of following from their customer base. Others are using it as hype and a marketing tool and, may not really have that long a waiting period.

Many good business men (a few of whom frequent the forums here) stop taking orders when their backlog reaches 2 or 3 years. As you mention, with long waiting periods all sorts of things happen. Knifemakers die, the cutomer dies, customer's loose jobs, knifemakers quit making knives and, the list goes on......

In 5 years, I will still be a knife knut and collecting knives but, my tastes and styles of knives I want will change. My economic standing will certainly be different as well. Will I have a better paying job due some boom (like the oil fields of Oklahoma during the 80's or the 'dot coms' recently) or, like so many today will I be unemployed scaping together just enough to get by? Will my retirement plan be fully funded or, will my retirement be in danger due to something like the current stock market (IRA's/401k's) problems seen here in the U.S.A.?

If I can't get something in a year or two from the maker, I buy from an individual on the secondary market or from the knife purveyor like Les Robertson.

Don't overlook knife purveyors for knives with long waits. They often will give you advice that saves your money and will have several knives to compare versus the single knife of one maker. Even if you never see them in person (which I assume is your case considering where you live), a reputable knife purveyor will give an honest impression of the knife, its quality and, its relative value to othermakers and will help prevent you from buy the wrong knife sight unseen from a distance.

When someone has a long wait time, ask them about their return policies (due they even take them back?). A knife purveyor will often be much more generous with an exchange or refund policy then a custom knifemaker. Do these knives hold their value on the secondary market or are they just a passing fancy that quickly dies out? Do these knives sit on the for sale forum for a long time with no response or, do they move quickly?

My advice, deal with an established and reputable knife purveyor if you are buying a knife sight unseen from a distance.
 
Most delivery times over 2 years are nothing more than a best guess. Notice I said "most". There are a few (very few) makers out there that are good enought business men that they can forecast several years out.

Of course if the maker becomes, sick, injured, divorced or incapcitated in any way...your quoted delivery time is down the toilet.

Sid made some excellent points. Problems with the maker aside. The knife you want today will more than likely not be the knife you want 5 years from now. If you want it at all.

I know(n) several makers who went from part-time to full time with a 1-3 year wait. Only to find orders being cancelled for the following reasons (Note this is not an inclusive list, on some of the top reasons.)

1) No longer interested in that particular knife.

2) Got the knife or something similar somewhere else.

3) Got married.

4) Got divorced

5) Lost Job

6) Had a child

7) Child now in college

8) Address, Phone number and/or email address no longer valid.

There are knifemaker's who have a 6 month delivery time who have to deal with some or all of those reasons why the client no longer wants the knife.

When I first started collecting knives I met Paul Basch. Paul saved me thousands of dollars. He did this by understanding what I was interested in. Then pointing out what would be (in his very educated opinion) the best place to spend my money.

Most times he would get the sale either way. There were times he sent me to another dealer or a maker whos's work I previously had not seen.

Working with a custom knife dealer I bought some great knives, saved thousands of dollars (by not buying knives that had little or no chance of re-sale) and was introduced to new makers.

I liked the experience so much I became a dealer.

For most avid collectors, a combination of buying from makers, dealers and other knife collectors. Is the best way to get the knives you want and in most cases for close to if not the makers price.

For the most part when a maker quotes you a delivery date. It is their best estimate.

If the wait is going to be multiple years. Then come to an understanding with the maker.

1) Because of the lenghthy delivery time you want to reserve a "space". As opposed to a specific knife. This allows you to chnage to a differnt knife or have the makers utilize materials they were not using 5 years ago.

2) Insert a 6 month clause. The first will be the maker has to contact you 6 months before starting to work on the knife.

This is done to help both parties. This allows the maker to check the current contact information before beginning the knife. Instead of building the knife and then finding out the client has moved.

On the clients part, this gives them the heads up to start getting the money together.

Also, having been several years since the order was placed. This give both the makers and client a chance to "re-visit" the knife.

This is the point where having a "space" instead of an exact knife can come into play. You tell the maker what you would like. With 6 months to make the knife. The maker will have time to order any needed materials. Note, there may be a price "adjustment" for ordering a space instead of a knife.

When dealing with long delivery times communication is the key.

It is up to the client to be as specific as possible as to what they want, notify the maker as to any change in address/phone/email. Additionally, if you have to cancel the knife, let maker know as soon as possible. It is much better to cancel the knife before work has begun than after. Either way the knife maker won't be happy. However, if they know before they start working on the knife. They have the option of just cancelling your order and starting to work on the next order.

It is up to the maker to get as specific as they can with the client about what they want at the time. It is up to the maker to confirm the order and specifics of the knife before work is begun on the knife.

When long delivery times are involved, communication is the key.

Sid, again you made some excellent points.
 
That is some very good advice............although as a knife fancier, I would never wait over a year and a half for ANY knife unless it was made by one of the legendary knifemakers and I was getting it at the old price.........like a Moran or Loveless, etc.
 
Just today I cancelled an order that I had put in for a knife a couple of years ago. This was from a very well known and highly regarded maker. The reason that I cancelled is that I am no longer interested in the same style of knives I was at the time of the order and this maker does not work in the style that I currently prefer. He has not gotten back to me yet so I do not know what his reaction is going to be like. Hopefully he will not think I am too much of a jerk.

I have no doubt that this is a problem for makers who have a waiting period of over a year. As Les mentioned, it is even a problem for those with a backlog of over six months. It would be interesting to get some input from makers on this and find out how they think buyers should handle this.

Dealers and purveyors are great places to get knives, but I like to have more input on the knives that I am getting than is usually possible when getting a knife this way. I also like the interaction I have with the makers, so this is why I like to order directly from them. Most of the makers I am dealing with have a backlog of two years or less and two have stopped taking orders for one reason or another. I do wonder though, just how big of a problem cancelled orders are for those makers with long waiting periods.
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson
...Because of the lenghthy delivery time you want to reserve a "space". As opposed to a specific knife.....
Click to expand...

I never thought of that - but that's exactly what I'll do from now on. Excellent advice, Les.
 
I was wondering about this myself many times...

I guess waiting for 5 years is longer then this toy hungry overgrown boy can stand...
;)
 
Heck, I am waiting for more than a year now on a Randall #1 and won't get it until 2004.
I also have a knife on order from a top maker and don't even know how long it will take ... probably longer than 5 years.
When I order a knife that means a very long wait, it always is a "must have, really must have" knife.
If all the knives were available on the spot, where is the fun? :D
 
Flavious...I know you enjoy the wait...that is why I traded my NIB R#1 for an Elishewitz folder..

just so I don't ruin your wait...
:D
 
How do those makers deal with inflation? I mean, is the price they quote higher than the price for the same knife they just delivered? Over 5 years, that amounts to a very significant amount of money, even at 3% a year...

JD
 
My bride, Angie takes care of my waiting list. She simply says why not make a ----? and I do. I was raised to complete a job, then go on to the next. When I see the waiting list I feel kind of hopeless, therefor she hides the list from me and simply keeps me in the shop.

I did not start making knives with the intention of making the same knife all my life, I am obcessed with experimenting, learning all I can about the knives I make. Each one is better, some experiments indicate the forging operation will be very time consuming in the future, multiple normalizing cycles along with the forging cycles is one variable we are exploring.
The new knives are significantly better than those previously made. This is the joy I receive making knives. I do not guarantee price on orders, but try to keep them in relation to what goes into the knife. There is a lot to learn about knives, most of what we learn is inside the blade, not visable to the average eye. Some design aspects are noticed by very few, but they are there and the maker knows. This is what makes for price or value if you will. Very few of us make the shop rates of the professional mechanic or plumer, but we enjoy what we do and that is what life is all about.
 
Ed, I agree with Kit. That was very well put. Your knives are worth waiting for, no matter how long that wait may be.
 
Thank you, Ed. That's a very good reply.

Very few of us who operate outside the knifeshop understand or know what really goes on inside the head of the knifemaker or the kind of feeling he is experiencing.

You have shed light on some darkened areas for all of us.
 
Well said Ed.
Two of my 3 favorite makers right here, Ed and Kit.
So all I have to do is bribe the brides:D
 
Ed,

I'm glad I stopped by the custom area here at BF.com today.
I need to hang a sign in my shop that's worded VERY similar to the last two paragraphs of your post!!!!!

You made my day :)


Neil
 
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