Jungle warfare

F

frenchman

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Nov 4, 2010
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Gentlemen,
I am a new member on this forum, and until now, I read a lot, but didn't post, just because most people here a way more knowledgeable then I am, so my contributions would be kinda unnecessary.
A comrade of mine will be reassigned to the 3 REI (infantry regiment of the french foreign legion), and will spend 2 years in the jungle of french Guyana. I plan on making a knife for him, but here's the deal: I have problems choosing the right materials for that specific environment. The humidity is 100% there, the blade would have a lot of chopping to do (shelter, campfire, bones and so on), but on the downside, it shouldn't be too heavy, as one has to carry it long ways, and over an extended period of time, and every ounce counts.
So, all I know for sure right now, is that leather as a sheath material is not an option (as it is kinda 100% sure that the knife/sheath will get wet at some point). Another thing is that the knife will need a significant amount of texture on the handle (think sweaty hands), and that a stainless steel would make more sense then a high carbon (believe me, you have better things to do in the field then to do some maintenance on your knife).
I would really appreciate any input. Thanks you in a advance, gentlemen.
 
Well I'm no expert at this by far but I read in the "Best material for a diving knife" http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=793246&highlight=diving+knife That 440c or a nitrogen steel like n680 or n360 would be good. I would go ahead and guess that 440c would work because it wont be exposed to salt water much (i assume). As for the handle, the only thing I can think of that has a rough texture already is something like G10, but if you used a solid wood you could rough it up with 60 or 80 grit, or sand a swell or two in it to improve grip. To keep the weight down you can drill the tang or even go with a 3/4 or 1/2 tang. I have seen Ryan Johnson from RMJTACTICAL.com (who has helped me out A LOT, great guy!) do tomahawks without a "tang" at all and pin the head directly onto layered G10, which when done right is an absolute beast to break. If you could get a knife design that would work like this, I'm sure it would weight next to nothing. Good Luck!
 
Hi

i'd roll the opposite way.. go with carbon steel .. i bet the last thing your worried about is having a shiny blade in the legion ... and having it chip out or break the tip off stainless would eat alot of time redressing it to put an edge on

maybe something kabar-esque in shape with micarta handle and kydex sheath ?


Greg
 
Actually, shiny is a no go. Thanks for the input so far. Any former soldiers here who have suggestions as for the size? I am thinking a thickness of 3/16, but I've been wrong before. I believe that Kydex/concealex for the sheath may be the way to go. Maybe ruberize it. I am just not really comfortable with the clip options that are out there. It really has to be heavy duty. The whole thing doesn't have to be pretty, it has to work and be reliable. It will need a guard, that's for sure, and a coating of some sort.
Keep them coming, gents. Thanks.
 
Stainless vs. carbon steel....either can be finished to any desired level of shine (or lack thereof). Carbon steel in that environment over an extended period of time is bound to rust and rust quickly. If it were me, I'd go for a quality stainless.

As for handle material, again, it depends largely on the finish/design. G10 can be slicker than snot when wet with a smooth finish. Texturing would seem to be a must. I'd also avoid any type of wood unless thoroughly and professionally stabilized as swelling with heat and moisture will be an issue. My thought would be something along the lines of micarta or G10 textured or finished for grip.

And as for the sheath, why not go with something pre-made along the lines of a Spec Ops sheath? They're already proven in military use and are nylon with a formable kydex liner. They're also readily set up to attach to military gear.

--nathan
 
If it were me, I'd lean towards a carbon steel, but I think most people lean towards a stainless.

CPM 154 is similar to 440C, but it has a bit better rust resistance, is a bit tougher, and generally has a little better edge retention. I'd stay away from high carbide steels like S30V for your application.

Canvas micarta is a good handle material for something like this. I'd attach it with both screws and epoxy.
 
I am totally new to knifemaking but why not look at something like AUS8A as it tends to deform on the edge rather than chip like some of the stainless materials out there. I have only seen this steel on smaller fixed blades and folders so I don't know if it would be a good choice for a large chopper.

For handle material, I hear that compressed rubber is actually pretty nice and fairly tough as well.


-Xander
 
I thought they were suppose to use an axe. ;)

TL012936.jpg
 
Patrice , those are the guys who built fortifications ! The movie "The Day of the Jackal" shows many of the different French units.

For the jungle with a lot of chopping I'd use stainless steel but not high in carbon. 440B works fine as I have a kukri made of that.AUS-8 would be ok also. They could be coated with black as is my kukri. I would suggest about 1 lb weight which you would get with a 1/4" x 8" blade.
 
Patrice Lemée;8968342 said:
I thought they were suppose to use an axe. ;)

TL012936.jpg
Click to expand...

It was always my dream to be on the parade in Paris for the 14 Juillet. Never made it tho. Somehow, I managed to always be in a regiment that didn't do the parade. Too bad you guys and blade nuts can't see the axes from a little closer. They are custom made, and engraved with the regiment and the name of the carrier. Almost impossible to get one for a collection.

So, CPM 154, 8 inch blade and I will look into that compressed rubber. First, I thought of a cord wrap, but I am pretty sure the cord would smell funny after a few days, river crossings and what not.
I will leave the heat treatment to a professional (BOS), just because my young brother in arms will have to trust this blade with his life, and that leaves no room for guesswork. I see so many works of art on here, from so many incredibly talented people, that I also think of maybe just do a drawing and have on of you make it. Oh well, his transfer is in 2012, that leaves me a lot of room for thoughts.
 
The unit in the photo , what do yo call them [in French] .I just can't remember !!
 
La legion etrangere (Sorry, I have no accents on my keyboard). These guys are the traditional "pioniers" of the first regiment. They are the only guys who are allowed to grow a beard while serving, and they always lead the legion's part of the parade. They did not build fortresses, their job was to follow the cavalry, and the apron and the axe they carry was to give wounded horses the "coup de grace". Also, if you have the opportunity, watch the bastille day's parade. You may notice that the units of the regular army split in front of the President of the french republic. The legion is the only unit that doesn't. It's a symbolic thing, "la legion ne se separe jamais".
 
awesome !... saw a documentary a couple weeks ago on the Legion.. man, the training for that is brutal... tough bunch with alot of history


err... had a couple friends over this summer for a mini cutting competition and most of them brought blades of CPM D2... .. alright... it did pretty good ... i was using crucible L6... but still their blade held up ... so i have to say that cpmD2 is probably pretty good ...

i'd make a knife first... test out the design ... then send out an improved one... ... i found that sometimes small things like say texture or placement of a guard can raise a blister if its not right... .. try chopping through a 4 inch branch of dry cherry wood..... it'll tell you something ;)

very cool project you have !
 
My assumptions were wrong .So they're horse killers. Interesting.
 
mete said:
My assumptions were wrong .So they're horse killers. Interesting.
Click to expand...

I think the idea, or at least the official notion of the beards was that they were supposed to reduce the transition of horse carried diseases. I have a feeling that excuse was just for brass though. Real reason was probably just that pioneers were at the time civilian tradesmen, and were not enlisted men.
 
How many of those horses went for food ? Living conditions were poor in the old days and suppliments of food would be welcome .Horsemeat is available today in their food markets.In prehistoric times there they ate auroch [beef] deer and horse as their three main meat sources.
 
Hengelo_77, those are about what I think a combat or field knife should be. Just remember, unless your talking commando's or similar spec ops 99% of knife use in the military is field craft.

Personaly I prefere carbon steel for a military knife. Easier to sharpen, holds a good edge, impact resistant and tough. Also you never know when you might need to strike a spark. As for rust, coat the blade with some kind of bake on coating, or for a down and dirty user use engine spray paint. It's easy to touch up. Wish I had a way to have blades ti coated.

As mas produced and with cheap leather handle and sharp stress risers the old KBar held up fairly well. It was 1/8" thick if I remember. Personaly I'd go with closer to 3/16" thick at the spine with a full flat grind and no more than a 6-7" blade and a mycarta or G10 handle sandblasted for texture. I'd rather chance a blister than a knife slip in the jungle.

If your going to do a full tange use corby bolts or loveless rivets and think of the epoxy as nothing more than a seal. Personaly a thick tanged hidden tange with a tough handle material and but cap would be my preferance. I remember a pic of where Wayne Godard hammered a hidden tange wire rope blade through a 2x4 cross grain and it held up fine.

Good luck and make sure you post pics!
 
I'd probably go with a carbon steel, and simply powder coat it.

ATS34 would probably be my choice for stainless.

If you texture G10 by hand (using a small wheel to cut random grooves), it's quite grippy.
 
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