Just a reflection.

[jackknife]

Theres been alot of great posts from alot a great guys here on this forum. Some have made me reflect on something for a bit. Not trying to draw any conclusions, but just thinking on something.

I've loved the photos posted by smiling-knife, sunnyd, and others of the really old pocket knives. The ones that look like they could be from 1900 or even before. I think its the worn blades, the grey patina, all the things that tell me that it was someones treasured companion, not something stuck away in a drawer. Pics of the kind of pocket knife that if it could talk of the places its been, you'd be interested in hearing about it.

Now this is what I'm wondering about- For the most part, not all, but mainly, it seems to me that a very great number of the old knives from that 1880's to 19something are of the two blade sleeve board jack pattern. Was that the most popular produced pattern of the late 1800's/early 1900's?

Ot was it some other factor I'm not taking into accout, as to why so many of the really old knives are of the small 2 blade type? In any case, like it was observed by one of our family, that judging from the good condition that these very old knives are in, they must have been taken care of way better than people take care of things now. And its not that they were not carried and used, because so many of them show signs of alot of sharpening and use that they were not drawer queens.

Anyway, keep postong those old ones s-k, from your hidden Sheffield cave no doubt.

 

[RandyW]

ditto what Jackknife said!!..Love the old stuff..Lets see more pics.

R

 

[smiling-knife]

Hi jackknife. That was a great post and question. I too believe that the purchase of a quality knife in the old days was a major investment for the average person. They were often given as gifts on special occasion. As such, people took great care of them and they often lasted a lifetime or passed through the generations. The knives that were bought were used. While lots of premium quality 'sporting' knives, lobster patterns etc were produced, these were beyond the means of that average working person. I'll see if I can find some figures, but I hypothesise that the two blade pen and a simple one blade e.g., barlow or pruner were produced in far greatet numbers.

This may be of interest. George Washington knew the value of a good pen knife.

COLUMBUS DISPATCH - Article from January 16, 1997 Section A, Pg 2, Columbus, Ohio

A letter written by George Washington asking for replacement of a lost penknife has been discovered in the attic of an old Florence S.C., home. The one-page letter, dated October 7, 1779, was found by David Williamson January 6 while cleaning the attic of his father's 19thcentury house. It was authenticated by Dr. William Burns, director of the Florence County Museum. "I haven't decided what I'm going to do with it," Williamson said Saturday. There was no envelope with the letter when Williamson found it folded inside a book entitled, "A History of Nathaniel Greene." The letter reads: "Dear Sir; I have lost and cannot tell how an old favourite penknife and am much distressed for want of one -- If you have any in your store please to send me one -- If you would be so good as to get me one immediately -- Perhaps you could furnish me with a knife with two blades. I should prefer this where choice can be had. Yr Most Obed, G. Washington."

 

[Blues]

For the most part, not all, but mainly, it seems to me that a very great number of the old knives from that 1880's to 19something are of the two blade sleeve board jack pattern. Was that the most popular produced pattern of the late 1800's/early 1900's?

I believe the regular jack (which tapers similarly to the sleeveboard but is square at the blade end) was the most popular handle shape with the most common setup being the spear master with secondary pen blade.

 

[jackknife]

Wow!

That is really a great letter. In 1779 he was deeply into the managing of the war, and I can only guess at the amount of quills he needed to trim for all those dispatches. It is interesting that he does specify a prefference to the two blade model.

Yes, I can well imagine that the simple one and two blade pocket knives were the tool of the common man and thus made in much more numbers. That would be logical.

 

[sunnyd]

Hi jackknife. That was a great post and question. I too believe that the purchase of a quality knife in the old days was a major investment for the average person. They were often given as gifts on special occasion. As such, people took great care of them and they often lasted a lifetime or passed through the generations. The knives that were bought were used. While lots of premium quality 'sporting' knives, lobster patterns etc were produced, these were beyond the means of that average working person. I'll see if I can find some figures, but I hypothesise that the two blade pen and a simple one blade e.g., barlow or pruner were produced in far greatet numbers.

This may be of interest. George Washington knew the value of a good pen knife.

COLUMBUS DISPATCH - Article from January 16, 1997 Section A, Pg 2, Columbus, Ohio

A letter written by George Washington asking for replacement of a lost penknife has been discovered in the attic of an old Florence S.C., home. The one-page letter, dated October 7, 1779, was found by David Williamson January 6 while cleaning the attic of his father's 19thcentury house. It was authenticated by Dr. William Burns, director of the Florence County Museum. "I haven't decided what I'm going to do with it," Williamson said Saturday. There was no envelope with the letter when Williamson found it folded inside a book entitled, "A History of Nathaniel Greene." The letter reads: "Dear Sir; I have lost and cannot tell how an old favourite penknife and am much distressed for want of one -- If you have any in your store please to send me one -- If you would be so good as to get me one immediately -- Perhaps you could furnish me with a knife with two blades. I should prefer this where choice can be had. Yr Most Obed, G. Washington."

This is toooo cool! S-K if you have any more of these little historical tidbits I would love for you to post same. This is what it is all about folksy folks.. I only wish that Washington would have described in detail the knife he lost. I love History!

Jakknife,

Super post, you have been reading my mind no doubt. My Two favorite types of threads that I look forward too here in this community are jakknife's short stories and smiling-knife's wonderful vintage pocketknives and provenances and facts that sometimes accompany same.

 

[smiling-knife]

Thank-you for your kind response sunnyd. It is much appreciated. I will endeavour to provide provenance and facts more often where and when I can. Best wishes.

 

[Will Power]

Smiling-Knife, you mention a lobster pattern knife. Can you elaborate on this please as I have no idea what it looks like, thank you.

 

[smiling-knife]

Smiling-Knife, you mention a lobster pattern knife. Can you elaborate on this please as I have no idea what it looks like, thank you.

Yes... in general a lobster pattern has the spring(s) inside the handle, rather than flush with one side, so that blades and attachments can open from both sides. This is an e.g. of a sleeveboard lobster. The sleeveboard refers to the handle shape which was named after the small Victorian ironing boards used for pressing the sleeves on gentlemans' shirts.

 

[jackknife]

Yes... in general a lobster pattern has the spring(s) inside the handle, rather than flush with one side, so that blades and attachments can open from both sides. This is an e.g. of a sleeveboard lobster. The sleeveboard refers to the handle shape which was named after the small Victorian ironing boards used for pressing the sleeves on gentlemans' shirts.

I guess a modern lobster pen knife would be a Victorinox classic or executive?

 

[knowtracks]

I believe the regular jack (which tapers similarly to the sleeveboard but is square at the blade end) was the most popular handle shape with the most common setup being the spear master with secondary pen blade.

Kinda like this one except for the clip blade.

 

[mnblade]

... judging from the good condition that these very old knives are in, they must have been taken care of way better than people take care of things now. And its not that they were not carried and used, because so many of them show signs of alot of sharpening and use that they were not drawer queens.

I too love the pics of the old knives. But I'm not at all convinced that they tell us anything absolute about the way folks used to care for their knives. The reason? We're seeing only the loved, cared for and well used knives. What happened to the abused beaters, with broken blades, chipped handles, scuffed bolsters, etc.? Well, they most likely ended up in the trash, I reckon. No one's taking their pics and posting them on bladeforums.com.

 

[jackknife]

Exellent point!

I'd not considered that angle.

 

[smiling-knife]

I too love the pics of the old knives. But I'm not at all convinced that they tell us anything absolute about the way folks used to care for their knives. The reason? We're seeing only the loved, cared for and well used knives. What happened to the abused beaters, with broken blades, chipped handles, scuffed bolsters, etc.? Well, they most likely ended up in the trash, I reckon. No one's taking their pics and posting them on bladeforums.com.

You make a valid point mnblade. I am sure, given the production numbers, that the examples surviving a 100 plus years are a very small minority.

 

[Arathol]

What happened to the abused beaters, with broken blades, chipped handles, scuffed bolsters, etc.? Well, they most likely ended up in the trash, I reckon. No one's taking their pics and posting them on bladeforums.com.

You mean like this old Electric?

Knives were a throw-away commodity. Remington for example made millions of knives, in near 1,000 different patterns, at a rate of some 10,000 a day when at full capacity in the early 30s. They were used hard and used up quick. The knives made by the most prolific maker are now one of the most collected and sought after brands, and more often than not bring a pretty good premium.

For the most part, not all, but mainly, it seems to me that a very great number of the old knives from that 1880's to 19something are of the two blade sleeve board jack pattern. Was that the most popular produced pattern of the late 1800's/early 1900's?

If you were to look through references that list makers and patterns made, you might see that the most common pattern is the 2 blade single end jack. Most are a variation on the regular jack, be it the sleeveboard, teardrop, swell end, trapper, swell center or any of the 25 or 30 variations that are commonly seen.
Case

Camillus

H Sears & Sons

Ulster Knife Co

 

[lambertiana]

I have been collecting antique slipjoints for some time, and the ones I encounter more often than any other are the regular jacks.

As has been pointed out, we are only seeing the ones that survived, so it is probably not a good assumption that all were cared for very well. They did represent a larger investment for most people than they do today, so I can imagine that they got more care than a lot of folks today give to their cheap $5 truck stop knives. My grandfather told me about how he ordered his first knife, a Case, through the Sears Roebuck catalog about 1919 or 1920, and was proudly showing it off in town (Thatcher, AZ). Some kid he didn't know ran off with it, and my grandfather never saw him again. Even 80 years later, I could feel the anger that he still felt about that event that happened to him when he was 9 years old.

Remington did a study in the 1931, and determined that the average half life of a pocketknife was about two years. By 1931 they were producing almost 3 million knives each year (10,000/day). And that is just one company; once you throw in all the other makers, there were a lot of knives being made and purchased. They had to go somewhere, and I imagine that a lot were worn out (I have seen many with just slivers of blades left), broken, or lost.

By 1940, when the depression drove the market to inexpensive knives, Imperial was making up to 100,000 knives per day.

 

[Dr. Mudd]

Arathol, your excellent photos here are greatly appreciated. You have no idea how many of us still treasure old knives like those. Or maybe you do!