Just Another SD Thread

B

Bayd

Joined
Jun 24, 2004
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23
I've been searching around various forums, trying to find a good folder. I was pretty much set on the CRKT M-16, but now I'm looking for something a little less 'weapon-like,' something that would be considered a tool by those who judge knives on their looks etc.. Any suggestions welcome.

P.S. - I live in Oregon, so and I can pretty much carry any knife ;)
 
Honestly, for SD...get a CCW permit, and take some SD classes. Much more useful than a knife. As far as SD goes, knives are probably the worst weapons you could use, unless you have a good deal of training.
 
ivan_yulaev said:
Honestly, for SD...get a CCW permit, and take some SD classes. Much more useful than a knife. As far as SD goes, knives are probably the worst weapons you could use, unless you have a good deal of training.
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I agree classes/training = best thing you can do usually.

I disagree.

#1. Who says he qualifies for CCW permit?

#2. Who knows if he spends 90% of his time in places where he's not allowed to carry a handgun permit or no? That's my problem.

#3. Knives are effective, concealable, and often legal. To think that the simple knife is not even an option is to eliminate a tool from your arsenal. It's defeatist thinking fueled by myths and preconceptions about SD.

#4. I will agree there are better weapons than a knife but they are often simply not viable. I can't tote a Sjambok everywhere I go now can I?

I'd say get an Endura/Delica and work from their. The Endura/Delica is the Standard for tactical folders in my mind. It also meets your requirement of not looking like a combat monster. If it's not at least as good as the Endura or Delica it's seriously lacking imho.
 
ivan_yulaev said:
As far as SD goes, knives are probably the worst weapons you could use, unless you have a good deal of training.
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You can't make statements like that without explaining what you mean. Lots of people kill and seriously injure lots of other people every day with knives, and probably none of them have spent a minute in formal training. Type the words "news stab victim" into your favorite search engine and you can read hundreds of recent stories about this sort of thing.
 
A knife is better than nothing, if it's legal. Even if it's not legal, the old maxim "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" applies.

I carry a knife for utility, not self defence. But it is a comfort to know that if I need it, I have it. If I were that worried about defending myself, I'd CCW, which I'm of age and in a state that allows it, so I could if necessary.
 
Honestly, for SD...get a CCW permit
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An interesting comment to come from someone from California.

As a Oregon CHL holder, I can tell you that the idea that a gun trumps everything else is naive and largely based on to much television and Hollywood movies.

If you think about it, a gun is a stabbing weapon only. It's only dangerous if you're in the line-of-fire which is about 1/2" in diameter, and then only for about 1/1000th of a second. Unless it's fully-automatic and belt-fed a gun has no concept of slash. And you only get maybe 10 stabs with a gun.

A gun is primarily a longer-range weapon.

When the subject comes up, some gunner always says, with a sort of condescending chuckle, "heh, heh, heh... never bring a knife to a gun fight."

But, sometime you've got to get through the knife fight to get to the gun fight.

A gun does not automatically trump a knife. Real-life situations are more a game of rock-scissors-paper; there is no one trump card.
 
I've had a ccw for over 20 years.I have my own gun range on some land we own. I have taken training.

And I carry knives much more often.

Lets see work 42 hours a week in the "hood" and can't carry a gun.

2 kids that play 3 sports year round means I'm on school grounds many times a week,year round.

Can sit on the deck of the pool with a folder lying near by,without freaking out the neighbors and kids.

A whole lot of places and times a knife just fits better.

That said some people see all knives as weapons so get what you want.If you want carry a small Swiss Army Knife and keep the sd knife out of sight.

Or the Spyderco Delica or the mini Grip may do the trick.
 
Gollnick said:
An interesting comment to come from someone from California.



If you think about it, a gun is a stabbing weapon only. It's only dangerous if you're in the line-of-fire which is about 1/2" in diameter, and then only for about 1/1000th of a second. Unless it's fully-automatic and belt-fed a gun has no concept of slash. And you only get maybe 10 stabs with a gun.

.
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Interesting point of view, Chuck. I never really thought about it that way before. Just goes to show ya that old dogs, sometimes, can turn new tricks, or was that learn new licks, or pick up sticks. :)

Bill
 
Julian Elliot said:
You can't make statements like that without explaining what you mean. Lots of people kill and seriously injure lots of other people every day with knives, and probably none of them have spent a minute in formal training. Type the words "news stab victim" into your favorite search engine and you can read hundreds of recent stories about this sort of thing.
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Knives are dangerous. OTOH, if you lack proper training, it can be taken away from you in a instant. If you bring a knife to a fight, sure, someone will more likely be seriously wounded, but will that person be you? Depends on your training or lack thereof.
 
if you lack proper training, it [a knife] can be taken away from you in a instant.
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This is true of any weapon including a gun. This is why "weapon retention" is part of any complete handgun training curriculum.

The fun thing about disarms with guns is the trigger guard; if you do it right, you end up breaking a finger in the process, an extra bonus.






What we're basically discovering here is that no weapon, gun, knife, whatever, is "perfect," none is the "ultimate trump card," none handles all situations, and none is much good without training and practice.
 
Bayd said:
I'm looking for something a little less 'weapon-like,' something that would be considered a tool by those who judge knives on their looks etc.. Any suggestions welcome.
P.S. - I live in Oregon, so and I can pretty much carry any knife ;)
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Take a look at the Benchmade 710. Made in Oregon, very legal, good grip scales, 3.9" blade. A very well made production folder with a strong lock.
 
Thanks for the imput guys, I realy appreciate the help. :)

btw Gollnit - please, please, please check your e-mail, i sent you a msg about oregon knife laws and am really anxious to get some clarifications on whats legal.
 
Sorry, maybe I spoke a bit too quickly. But, I believe that Oregon is a shall-issue state...no?

Anyway, if you're carrying a knife purely with SD purposes in mind...there's legal issues. Carrying a utility knife is a better idea, f.ex., a delica/endura would fit this bill well. However, without training, a knife is little better than empty handed, and definitely worse than a stick. I'd recommend taking the money you were going to spend on a knife and getting some SD training first.

A folding knife has the same disadvantages as a pistol - takes time to get it into play. Most of the time, muggings or whatnot won't happen with the "ambush out of the dark" - type move, rather, it's usually one person to distract, and another to surprise you when your guard is down. In that case, unless the knife is in your hand, you won't have time to get it out.

Therefore, the best defense against such incidents is simply staying alert and aware of your surroundings.

Note: I do have little experience in this, so take my words with huge grains of salt :-d
 
Gollnick said:
A gun is primarily a longer-range weapon.
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I was stuck by this comment. After thinking it over I guess it's certainly is true - especially when you're talking vs. a knife. But in the context of self defense - especially with handguns - the effective range is going to be pretty short. Effective being - you can hit your target, not the bullet is lethal were it to hit home. And then of course there's relatively few scenarios where you're going to have longer-range use that's really self-defense. So I tend to think of guns (especially handguns) as short-range weapons.

FWIW

John-Boy
 
What John-Boy said.

If you use a gun in SD situations, you will challenged to prove self defense - to substantiate that you were under attack. If you shoot a perp at 10 feet distance from you, it will be much easier to argue self-defense than if you drop someone at 30 feet.

The fine line is not to let the perp get close enough to disarm you or overwhelm you - but be able to substantiate imminent threat.

Whether you hold a carry permit or not.
 
Since a folder is all I can leagally carry, I carry the best I can, Strider. The Buck/Strider Tarani would be a great choice too.
 
Mr. Bayd,

I have not received any e-mail from you. Please try again.
 
just out of curiosity Gollnick i was wondering if you had studied knife fighting. i know you are one of the resident experts on the balisong around here and i get the impression you have filipino knife combatives training.
 
Yes, Kali and Arnis and some minor exposure to Silat.

I'm not an expert.
 
klattman said:
Knives are dangerous. OTOH, if you lack proper training, it can be taken away from you in a instant.
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Although I generally agree, I have to take issue with knives being easy to take away. Disarms, even by the trained, are hard to pull off. I suggest you get a soft trainer and a partner, and take away his knifeor better yet, a no lie blade or something to that effect. It's harder than it looks-and that's not including kerambits, lagriffe, SPOT, or any other knives that a finger goes through. IMHO, Joe
 
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