Just made my second knife, would love feedback. Is there any way to HT unknown steel?

[Samot]

My Dad gave me some steel scrap when I saw him for Christmas so I started working on another knife. I had to buy a metal cutting blade for my circular saw to cut a strip off of the smallest plate I got, then proceed to grind a very simple (almost shank-like... shankish... shanky?) knife. I'm really happy with how it turned out, considering it's really only my second time. I left the "unfinished" look on the sides of the blade on purpose, and cord wrapped the handle. I may rewrap it with a more stylish pattern, but I'm happy with the grip. The edge is ground on a very steep angle (like 45 degrees) but it's symmetrical and sharp, which is all I was shooting for. A longer angle would look better, but I'd need some sort of angle guide. I'm sure if I freehanded it, I wouldn't be happy with the result.

I wish I could easily find out what kind of steel it is, so I could do some kind of heat treatment, but it was random scrap. I'm sure it's high carbon, since it was developing rust as I was grinding. Is there a "generic" heat treatment process I can do with campfire/oven type equipment?

Thanks for looking!

 

[rocketmann]

Samot, first off it would help if you filled out your profile. One of us may be right next door to you. The fact that the steel was rusting has nothing to do with the carbon content. Take a pc and heat it to just above non-magnetic, quench it in water then clamp it in a vice and break it with a hammer. If it snaps off like glass it has some carbon in it. After that it is anyones guess what it may be. At that point you can choose to experiment with it or not. Read the STICKIES at the top of the page, they have a lot of info regarding how to get started.

 

[GrizzlyBear]

I was going to suggest heating to just past non magnetic and quenching in some used motor oil. I did that with a piece of unknown scrap (just practicing and playing around) and it increased the hardness a fair amount.

 

[Samot]

Samot, first off it would help if you filled out your profile. One of us may be right next door to you. The fact that the steel was rusting has nothing to do with the carbon content. Take a pc and heat it to just above non-magnetic, quench it in water then clamp it in a vice and break it with a hammer. If it snaps off like glass it has some carbon in it. After that it is anyones guess what it may be. At that point you can choose to experiment with it or not. Read the STICKIES at the top of the page, they have a lot of info regarding how to get started.

Good point about the profile, thanks. And an interesting fact about the carbon, I assumed only carbon steel would rust before your eyes. My mistake. As you can tell my knowledge is VERY limited. I've been reading through the information in the stickies slowly, but there's a lot of very specific information there. It's a bit difficult to jump into from a position of limited knowledge. If there was anything about heat treating unknown metal, I've missed it or haven't found it yet.

As for the carbon test. It sounds interesting, but is it as simple as throwing the piece in a campfire? Is that hot enough? How long does it take to get to a non-magnetic temp in a "normal" fire? Is there any other home methods for determining what type of steel it is?

Thanks for the reply, I'll keep reading.

I was going to suggest heating to just past non magnetic and quenching in some used motor oil. I did that with a piece of unknown scrap (just practicing and playing around) and it increased the hardness a fair amount.

That sounds simple enough. If I can get a hold of some, I'll try that. Are there other oils that can be used? is there an easy way to test the hardness so I know if I am successful?

Thanks!

 

[tryppyr]

Griz, why are you offering a newbie bad advice? Direct them to the stickies.

 

[mgysgthath]

Are you saying it rusted in real-time, as you were literally watching it? Or over the course of a day or two?

 

[Samot]

Are you saying it rusted in real-time, as you were literally watching it? Or over the course of a day or two?

It's possible I misunderstood what I saw, but while I was shaping the tip, the edge was still wet from cooling in water. After working on the tip for maybe 10 minutes, there looked like very fine oxidization at the base of the edge. I didn't see rust forming, but it was there when it wasn't there only 10 or so minutes before. I should have tried rubbing it off with my finger to see if it was dust, but I did a pass with the grinder instead. I think it rusted really fast, but if that's not logically possible, it's just my mistake.

 

[xmtgx]

I make blades rust pre-heattreat to no end. If I dip it in water without drying it and go back to grinding the high temperatures I reach when rough grinding 400+, cause it to rust almost instantly its quite a weird phenomenon.

 

[GrizzlyBear]

Griz, why are you offering a newbie bad advice? Direct them to the stickies.

I'm not offering bad advice. He claimed it was unknown steel scrap. I was given the same advice by a couple of different makers for junk/scrap/unknown steel.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I'm not sure what you want us to tell you.
Please don't take this as an attack, but your post leaves me wondering.

You filled out only the most basic info in your profile, so we still don't know if you are 16 and in High School or a 30 year old Machinist Mate in the Navy.
You have been on this forum over two years and don't appear to have ever read about mystery steel, canola oil, and basic HT.

What you have appears to be a piece of plain low carbon steel that has been shaped into a somewhat knife like object. Prison shank is a pretty good name for it.

You have said that you don't want to take the time to:
Read the stickies
File a bevel
Read about HT
Do a complete wrap on the handle

My advise is to not make another knife until you have done the reading, and are ready to take the time to make the knife properly.
If you need to research some good information on BF about the subjects covered, use this search engine (Put it in your Browser bar):
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

The sticky "How to Instructions for making a Knife" will tell you nearly everything you need to know about the process. The "Making a file Knife" stickies have a lot of basic mystery steel HT info.

Above all, I would recommend not using the unknown steel you have, but instead getting some steel that you at least have some idea about. Aldo can sell you four feet of 1084 for about $15. I'm no fan of back yard HT ( campfire/propane torch/BBQ grill and a hair drier ) but 1084 can be hardened that way.

 

[GrizzlyBear]

I think posts like this generally get blown out of proportion.

Here is what I took from the original post:

"Hey, I just wanted you folks to know that I received some scrap steel to try my hand at knife making. This is my second attempt at making a knife, so I'm still learning and most importantly, still experimenting with different ideas and methods. I know the steel is unknown scrap, I'm simply messing around with this to have a good time and learn grinding methods and overall construction. One day when I feel confident enough, I'll purchase a bit of good steel and attempt a real, usable knife."

Now, that being said, I do think that he needs to read the stickies and learn as much as he can from reading all he can. However, I don't think he should be told not to make a knife at all till he does the reading. Nor do I think he should be told to not use scrap steel at all. I get the idea he is simply dipping his toes into this hobby to see if it's something he might like to attempt on a larger scale. Not that he's going to find every piece of scrap steel he can, make knives out of it and sell them to the public.

Edit:
My first 2 knives were from scrap steel. I learned a LOT about filing techniques, design, fit and finish, etc. from experimenting with it...and it didn't cost me a dime. One of the knives I gave to my brother as a letter opener, the other is sitting on my desk.

 

[Mudbug007]

I think posts like this generally get blown out of proportion.

Here is what I took from the original post:

"Hey, I just wanted you folks to know that I received some scrap steel to try my hand at knife making. This is my second attempt at making a knife, so I'm still learning and most importantly, still experimenting with different ideas and methods. I know the steel is unknown scrap, I'm simply messing around with this to have a good time and learn grinding methods and overall construction. One day when I feel confident enough, I'll purchase a bit of good steel and attempt a real, usable knife."

Now, that being said, I do think that he needs to read the stickies and learn as much as he can from reading all he can. However, I don't think he should be told not to make a knife at all till he does the reading. Nor do I think he should be told to not use scrap steel at all. I get the idea he is simply dipping his toes into this hobby to see if it's something he might like to attempt on a larger scale. Not that he's going to find every piece of scrap steel he can, make knives out of it and sell them to the public.

Edit:
My first 2 knives were from scrap steel. I learned a LOT about filing techniques, design, fit and finish, etc. from experimenting with it...and it didn't cost me a dime. One of the knives I gave to my brother as a letter opener, the other is sitting on my desk.

I couldn't agree more! Seems to be happening more and more these days.....

 

[Drew Riley]

I think posts like this generally get blown out of proportion.

Here is what I took from the original post:

"Hey, I just wanted you folks to know that I received some scrap steel to try my hand at knife making. This is my second attempt at making a knife, so I'm still learning and most importantly, still experimenting with different ideas and methods. I know the steel is unknown scrap, I'm simply messing around with this to have a good time and learn grinding methods and overall construction. One day when I feel confident enough, I'll purchase a bit of good steel and attempt a real, usable knife."

Now, that being said, I do think that he needs to read the stickies and learn as much as he can from reading all he can. However, I don't think he should be told not to make a knife at all till he does the reading. Nor do I think he should be told to not use scrap steel at all. I get the idea he is simply dipping his toes into this hobby to see if it's something he might like to attempt on a larger scale. Not that he's going to find every piece of scrap steel he can, make knives out of it and sell them to the public.

Edit:
My first 2 knives were from scrap steel. I learned a LOT about filing techniques, design, fit and finish, etc. from experimenting with it...and it didn't cost me a dime. One of the knives I gave to my brother as a letter opener, the other is sitting on my desk.

Personally, I think it's better to read and learn about good habits before you spend hours, weeks, or months developing bad ones. I'd say the same regarding learning about what WORKS before you waste twice as much time learning about what doesn't. I.E., trying to heat treat mystery steel. Why spend hours shaping your knife, building and tending a fire, heating the piece of steel, and quenching it, only to find that it was indeed a piece of mild steel?

As far as practicing on scrap to build confidence... that's fine. I did the same myself, but I knew exactly what kind of scrap steel I was using. At the same time, for what he likely spent on a metal cutting blade for his circ saw, he could have gotten several feet of usable, heat treatable, carbon steel from Also, ALREADY cut to width, annealed, and ready to cut, drill, grind, file, etc....

Lastly, don't underestimate what people will try selling to the public as a usable knife. I'm sure there are plenty of "mild steel" blades being passed off as custom knives for lack of knowlege of anything but shaping metal and gluing wood.
I know of at least a couple knife makers on this very forum who basically refuse to use anything BUT scrap (saw mill blades and what not).

I myself have a "band saw blade" knife from a very talented maker, who appears to be fairly well known and knowledgable. He normally uses premium, known steels, but for this particular knife, used some "L6" bandsaw blade stock that he had lying around. (After all... aren't ALL industrial saw blades made from L6?! hahah) When I got the knife, it was hair popping sharp.
About 20 cuts later (cardboard, rope, and paracord) I could barely get the thing to saw through a piece of paracord.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[tryppyr]

I think posts like this generally get blown out of proportion.

That may be, Griz, but there is a reason they are treated as seriously as they are.

As was recently pointed out to me by Nick, every post placed in this forum is readable by millions of Internet viewers. While you may be targeting a response to a specific individual, the response is readable by any number of other people. That response adds to the body of information that comprises this forum.

When you pass along bad advice (like "used motor oil is a good quenchant for unknown steel"), it affects not only this one person you are trying to help, but all the other people that come along later and see it. With each repetition of bad advice it gains more credibility. Each time this forum is the source of bad advice, it loses credibility.

The stickies were put into place so that we have a means of directing newbies with common questions to the correct answers so we can avoid being the source of bad advice. We all want to be helpful, but the best way to be helpful is to guide them to the correct answers, not provide them with lore or bad advice.

- Greg

 

[Joe Calton]

samot,

thats a good looking 2nd knife. you might make a sheath for it and start using it, then you will find out real quick what you want to change for the next one. the source of the scrap is you best bet as to steel type. whatever it was, that steel had qualities for that application, if it worked good for that application, it might work good for yours. you can do a spark check on your grinder and read the sparks, the quench test already mentioned. for hardness testing, try different files. i have chainsaw files that are harder than regular mill files, I just noticed a post from someone else that mentions a set of hardness checking files, but that might be for later. junkyard steel is great to learn on, and is my favorite for some things.

whats important is to keep going, keep learning, and making better ones. and junkyard steels are the best for that for alot of folks.

Joe

 

[AVigil]

You might want to learn about how to do a "Spark Test" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_testing

If you are using files you can make a jig for making Scandi grinds. Here is an example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RZT5mpTSHQ


Working with an unknown metal is a crap shoot.

Anyone can make a knife and that is a fact. But when you want to make a "Good Knife" you will need to follow a few of the basics outlined in the stickies on the forum.

Good luck!

 

[robwil]

Does your father know where he got the steel? Is it possible to go back to the source? Did the steel have any colored paint on it? Steel manufactures often identify steel grades by color coding the steel with paint. For example I have seen 440c bar with the ends painted blue or D2 with the ends painted pale yellow. I believe the manufactures have a standard color coding system that is uniform between manufactures. When you ground the edges, what were the sparks like? yellow or red? course or fine? the color and size of the sparks will indicate the difference between carbon steel that is alloyed the relative amount of chrome present. These are not precise indicators but give clues as to the composition of the steel.

 

[Samot]

You filled out only the most basic info in your profile, so we still don't know if you are 16 and in High School or a 30 year old Machinist Mate in the Navy.
You have been on this forum over two years and don't appear to have ever read about mystery steel, canola oil, and basic HT.

I'm a little paranoid about information I leave laying around on the internet. I don't generally provide information unless it's needed, which rocketmann reminded me of in this case. I'm in San Diego and, while I'm not sure what my age has to do with it, I'm a 31 year old substitute teacher. A/S/L?

What you have appears to be a piece of plain low carbon steel that has been shaped into a somewhat knife like object. Prison shank is a pretty good name for it.

You have said that you don't want to take the time to:
Read the stickies
File a bevel
Read about HT
Do a complete wrap on the handle

I didn't say any of those things.

My advise is to not make another knife until you have done the reading, and are ready to take the time to make the knife properly.
If you need to research some good information on BF about the subjects covered, use this search engine (Put it in your Browser bar):
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

The sticky "How to Instructions for making a Knife" will tell you nearly everything you need to know about the process. The "Making a file Knife" stickies have a lot of basic mystery steel HT info.

Above all, I would recommend not using the unknown steel you have, but instead getting some steel that you at least have some idea about. Aldo can sell you four feet of 1084 for about $15. I'm no fan of back yard HT ( campfire/propane torch/BBQ grill and a hair drier ) but 1084 can be hardened that way.

Noted.

I think posts like this generally get blown out of proportion.

Here is what I took from the original post:

"Hey, I just wanted you folks to know that I received some scrap steel to try my hand at knife making. This is my second attempt at making a knife, so I'm still learning and most importantly, still experimenting with different ideas and methods. I know the steel is unknown scrap, I'm simply messing around with this to have a good time and learn grinding methods and overall construction. One day when I feel confident enough, I'll purchase a bit of good steel and attempt a real, usable knife."

Now, that being said, I do think that he needs to read the stickies and learn as much as he can from reading all he can. However, I don't think he should be told not to make a knife at all till he does the reading. Nor do I think he should be told to not use scrap steel at all. I get the idea he is simply dipping his toes into this hobby to see if it's something he might like to attempt on a larger scale. Not that he's going to find every piece of scrap steel he can, make knives out of it and sell them to the public.

Edit:
My first 2 knives were from scrap steel. I learned a LOT about filing techniques, design, fit and finish, etc. from experimenting with it...and it didn't cost me a dime. One of the knives I gave to my brother as a letter opener, the other is sitting on my desk.

Sounds like you know exactly what I was trying to say, and I appreciate the understanding and attempts to help. Thank you.

Personally, I think it's better to read and learn about good habits before you spend hours, weeks, or months developing bad ones. I'd say the same regarding learning about what WORKS before you waste twice as much time learning about what doesn't. I.E., trying to heat treat mystery steel. Why spend hours shaping your knife, building and tending a fire, heating the piece of steel, and quenching it, only to find that it was indeed a piece of mild steel?

As far as practicing on scrap to build confidence... that's fine. I did the same myself, but I knew exactly what kind of scrap steel I was using. At the same time, for what he likely spent on a metal cutting blade for his circ saw, he could have gotten several feet of usable, heat treatable, carbon steel from Also, ALREADY cut to width, annealed, and ready to cut, drill, grind, file, etc....

Lastly, don't underestimate what people will try selling to the public as a usable knife. I'm sure there are plenty of "mild steel" blades being passed off as custom knives for lack of knowlege of anything but shaping metal and gluing wood.
I know of at least a couple knife makers on this very forum who basically refuse to use anything BUT scrap (saw mill blades and what not).

I myself have a "band saw blade" knife from a very talented maker, who appears to be fairly well known and knowledgable. He normally uses premium, known steels, but for this particular knife, used some "L6" bandsaw blade stock that he had lying around. (After all... aren't ALL industrial saw blades made from L6?! hahah) When I got the knife, it was hair popping sharp.
About 20 cuts later (cardboard, rope, and paracord) I could barely get the thing to saw through a piece of paracord.

Draw your own conclusions.

I really am simply "practicing". I have no intention on selling, or even giving away, any of these knives. I've ground metal into the shape of a knife before, but I realize that without proper heat treating, it's not really fair to call them "knives". I've been in this forum longer than my sign up date suggests ( I was a manager at The Edge at grossmont before they closed and used their account before this one.) but I am very new to the knife making forums, which is why I haven't finished reading all the very detailed information in the stickies yet. I intend to keep reading, but I find it helpful to learn practical skills through trial and error. If i attempt a HT on one of these knives, and it snaps, I"m not going to cry or come running back to Griz or someone else saying "you gave me bad info and broke my knife!" As I said before, they're barely better than prison shanks. If it breaks I'll happily grind another.

Does your father know where he got the steel? Is it possible to go back to the source? Did the steel have any colored paint on it? Steel manufactures often identify steel grades by color coding the steel with paint. For example I have seen 440c bar with the ends painted blue or D2 with the ends painted pale yellow. I believe the manufactures have a standard color coding system that is uniform between manufactures. When you ground the edges, what were the sparks like? yellow or red? course or fine? the color and size of the sparks will indicate the difference between carbon steel that is alloyed the relative amount of chrome present. These are not precise indicators but give clues as to the composition of the steel.

My dad said he got them at a ship scrapyard, he's a boat guys (mostly sails) and I'm sure he got them from someone he knows around the marina. I'm including a picture of the pieces I've been working from, and though they are not color coded, one has some writing on it. It should have occurred to me earlier that it might be info about the steel.
The spark test sounds like a great idea, but I'm at a bit of a disadvantage. I'm a bit red-green color deficient. When I grind the steel I was working on today, I see medium to small yellow sparks, but I'll have to ask my GF to watch sometime to tell me if I'm missing some red.

You also get to see my WIP on my third knife.

I'm sorry I created a conflict by posting here, but I really appreciate all the responses I've gotten, even the ones I don't agree with. I especially appreciate those from GrizzlyBear, Rocketmann, Mudbug007, joe444, AVigil, and robwil. Thank you all.

 

[12345678910]

I believe the manufactures have a standard color coding system that is uniform between manufactures.

No it's completely unorganized.

 

[12345678910]

Steel that is appropriate for knifemaking is actually quite rare compared to the amount of mild steel used.
I live in an industrial centre and still have to order and ship most of my steels in from speciality sellers in the USA.


I completely understand your apprehension on revealing your identity.
In this case your age and background is significant, because it gives us context on how to best communicate with you.

In looking at this, I agree prision shiv, only I think a shiv would be pointier.

I encourage you to look at designs you like and make drawings, then wooden and cardboard mockups.







I've put this together to answer most of a new maker’s questions on how to make a knife. I'm sure it will help you too. How to Instructions for making a Knife.

The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V22

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:

Think thin. A paring knife slices, an axe doesn't.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then make it in wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
Play with that and see if it “feels right”. If it feels right it usually “looks right“

See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. Google books thread

Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better for some steels.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitchers..)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. I just post this as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.


You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench.
Forget used motor oil, it's toxic and doesn't work that well.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;

Even grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel.

Brine and water are almost free, and technically correct for W1 and "water hardening" steels but a fast oil like Parks 50 and Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades.
If you use water or brine, expect to have a cracked or broken blade.
Search the work "tink" for more info


Glue – Epoxy

Use a Fresh package of slow setting, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and well as seal out moisture.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive, blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean & no oil including fingerprints. Soap, Acetone & Alcohol, Blasting.
Clamp with moderate pressure= avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
These are well proven.
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex


Grinder / Tools

In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Files can be made from unhardenable steel, or steel similar to 1095 that needs a difficult HT
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Don't believe me? google "Ed Caffrey lung cancer" and see what he has to say about it.

The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
There are also prefilters that snap over the main filter for longer life.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here

This is a special Google page that searches BF only & works better than the forum search.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

V22 Dec 1, 2011.