Just starting and have some questions

[dadarrow]

I love this forum. Wish I had more hours in the day just to pick up good information. Some of you know my story because I inadvertently posted on the general knife discussion board but I will give a quick bio and present some questions:
I have 9 children (6 boys, 3 girls). My boys and I have been planning for some time to start making knives (girls are still young). Boys are 19, 17, 15, 13 & 10 with youngest being 4. We love firearms and blades and this is something we can do together. We are actually going to convert my weekend warrior shop into a bit of a knife making shop. We have some tools but not near enough. My first goal is to construct a set of knives (one for each of us) that is the same knife with different handles. This project will be something my whole family will enjoy and I believe some of my sons will actually stay in this line of work because of their passion for blades. My original post was on the General Knife Discussion and it was "Newbie with lots of questions"
Questions:
1). Fixed blade steel: for this first set of knives, I would appreciate a recommendation on what steel would be an all around good steel. O-1 has been recommended.
2). What would be essential for tools? I have a shop that I will begin furnishing with the proper equipment (as $ allows) but I would love some insight into a prioritization of equipment. I currently have a small belt sander and a bandsaw. I have a bench vise but not much else.
3). I have looked at many of the archives or threads that recommend resources. I have ordered some books and DVDs on knife making but I would love a quick response on what the best book would be to help someone starting out in making knives. (I did read the bladsmth thread: How to instructions for making a knife--great stuff). I like to read so books help and my boys will appreciate as well.
4). IF there are any bladesmiths/knife makers in the Spokane, WA/Coeur d'Alene, ID area, I would love to visit and see what you are doing. Anyone wiling to connect?
5). We ultimately want to forge our blades but for now we will focus on stock removal. However, are there good resources out there for building your own forge?
6). Concerning HT, I am contemplating making my own furnace (have some resources here). I need to learn more about the heat treating process. Once again, is there a good resource (book) for that?
7). The bottom line is I am eager to get information. I appreciate the talent I have seen and the amazing experience that you have!

 

[Sam Salvati]

take a visit to monstermetal. monstermetal.org Larry is the guy's name he'll be able to help you find more info. I suggest joining the Nwba also:

blacksmith.org

 

[Jeephat]

I wouldn't call myself a professional, but I'm working on some knives now and have completed some over the last few months. Just wanted to drop a line since I live in Spokane. I have been working with 5160 spring steel from leaf springs and doing my own HT, but I work out of my basement and it is hardly a shop.

I've been using a belt sander 3x21 and a 1x30 sander so not the best tools, but its been working. You can email me FAIRVIEWAL at gmail if you want to chat more.

Here are the ones that I have finished

 

[abnk]

From newbie to newbie: I found the following thread extremely helpful and I think it will answer your first question.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673173

 

[12345678910]

Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to Newbies v8

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer, and you may have a helpful neighbour.
We can often recommend a local supplier, but that depends on where you are.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the stickies at the top, many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website

This is a very detailed set of instructions by Stacy E.Apelt.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673


Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or book previews Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.

Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
A modern book with great photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way To Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel


The $50 knife shop
It is popular, but it confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary, you can just file and grind everything away to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercially made quench oils are cheap and easily available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require the skills of an experienced smith to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084 very cheaply.
(Mentioned in the new edition)

I like cable damascus, but that is an advanced project for an experienced smith and has no place in a beginners book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about the book, but there is now a huge amount of info on home built 2x72 belt grinders on the web.
The revised edition of this book should have included this.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available.
Some are better than others, but all better than nothing.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”

You can see a list of some older videos and their reviews at this rental company.
They are not the quickest on getting new titles, but some videos are worth buying, some are worth renting…
Rental wait times are measured in months, buying is MUCH faster, but more costly.
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, -stock removal, hand tools, and neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free for those who can use torrent files.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4995247/Greenpete_s__Knifemaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife
You can also find it on YouTube broken into 4 parts.


Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot/Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you want to ship out for heat treating, you can use ATS34, 440C, plus many others.

If you want to heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find lists of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo’s website inventory is unreliable, call instead.
http://njsteelbaron.com/


Heat Treating
You do not have to buy a lot of equipment to start with.
You can send out for heat treating, 10 or 15 $ per blade

This is a PDF brochure which gives good general info
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/about_us.php
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
and others


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive paper.
The Green Pete video does it this way.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

 

[dadarrow]

I notice that many of the suppliers have pre-cut knives and/or kits. Obviously the advantage of this is that there is less design work to be done but it also seems to take away from the creative element. So I am looking at starting with blank stock steel and starting with our own template (one of my sons is very artistic and I have charged him with design!). We are excited about the prospects.

 

[Patrickknives]

I think there is alot of info in the posts to get you started, I recommend $50 Knife Shop very basic, cheap to buy and lots of good info.

1). Fixed blade steel: for this first set of knives, I would appreciate a recommendation on what steel would be an all around good steel. O-1 has been recommended.

Pick your poison when it comes to knife steel, first pic how or who will do your HT. O1 is good but needs a soak and oil quench, If you are sending out, should be air hardening (A2 or most stainless 440c, ast34, CPM 154) unless you can find someone to do oil quench (most dont), if you want to do a simple HT and oil quench yourself then a simple carbon steel 1075 or 1080-1084 is the way to go. By far for most beginners the recommendation is simple carbon if you do your own HT or air hardening to send out.

 

[lonepine]

[

Questions:
2). What would be essential for tools? I have a shop that I will begin furnishing with the proper equipment (as $ allows) but I would love some insight into a prioritization of equipment. I currently have a small belt sander and a bandsaw. I have a bench vise but not much else.

Do you have an electric drill? How about a large file? A Hacksaw? Any clamps?

The drill will make holes for pins and help "cut out the blade blanks" by outlining them with holes. The hacksaw will finish cutting out the blanks and trim off pins in the handles and other tasks. Essential tools.

The vise will hold your blade while you are filing the bevels and hold a lot of other stuff. Essential tool.

I use clamps to hold the blade blank on a piece of wood (that is held in the vise) to file the bevels, AND for gluing the handle scales on. Essential tools.

You will also need various grades of sandpaper and pieces of wood to use while sanding/grinding your blades.

You can make blades using only files. It’s what I did for about six knives until I decided that I could use my hand-held belt sander as a grinder. It is JUST LIKE A BADER, except not so fast and not so good. BUT… It works MUCH faster than filing does. I burnt mine out after about 6-8 blades and HAD to buy a Sears 2X42 belt grinder. A belt grinder is like a microwave oven, remote control car lock, indoor plumbing, etc. Once you’ve had it you can’t imagine doing with out it, regardless of how lousy it is, it’s still better than filing. You don’t miss what you never had.

Kids don’t have a long attention span and will want to see results quickly. Start with small knives with short blades because they are quicker to finish. Regardless of how crude and ugly their knives may be they will be the most wonderful things in their eyes. This is perfectly OK.

1080/1084 is probably a better steel for what you’re doing, but if you can get O1 cheaper than you can get 1080 from Kelly Cupples then use O1. The important point is the time spent with the kids and the satisfaction they get from it, not that they make technically “good” knives.

This is really neat! I wish you WILD SUCCESS with this project. Oh how I envy you! Have fun!

LonePine
AKA Paul Meske, Wisconsin

 

[dadarrow]

[

Do you have an electric drill? How about a large file? A Hacksaw? Any clamps?

The drill will make holes for pins and help "cut out the blade blanks" by outlining them with holes. The hacksaw will finish cutting out the blanks and trim off pins in the handles and other tasks. Essential tools.

The vise will hold your blade while you are filing the bevels and hold a lot of other stuff. Essential tool.

I use clamps to hold the blade blank on a piece of wood (that is held in the vise) to file the bevels, AND for gluing the handle scales on. Essential tools.

You will also need various grades of sandpaper and pieces of wood to use while sanding/grinding your blades.

You can make blades using only files. It’s what I did for about six knives until I decided that I could use my hand-held belt sander as a grinder. It is JUST LIKE A BADER, except not so fast and not so good. BUT… It works MUCH faster than filing does. I burnt mine out after about 6-8 blades and HAD to buy a Sears 2X42 belt grinder. A belt grinder is like a microwave oven, remote control car lock, indoor plumbing, etc. Once you’ve had it you can’t imagine doing with out it, regardless of how lousy it is, it’s still better than filing. You don’t miss what you never had.

Kids don’t have a long attention span and will want to see results quickly. Start with small knives with short blades because they are quicker to finish. Regardless of how crude and ugly their knives may be they will be the most wonderful things in their eyes. This is perfectly OK.

1080/1084 is probably a better steel for what you’re doing, but if you can get O1 cheaper than you can get 1080 from Kelly Cupples then use O1. The important point is the time spent with the kids and the satisfaction they get from it, not that they make technically “good” knives.

This is really neat! I wish you WILD SUCCESS with this project. Oh how I envy you! Have fun!

LonePine
AKA Paul Meske, Wisconsin

Paul,
Thanks for your response. I do have a drill (not a drill press however) and plenty of files. I have clamps, vise, etc. I have bandsaw, hacksaw and some other small tools. I know I am set up to do knives without much of the power tools which is a fine start for us. We are looking at setting up our shop here in the future. (BTW...when I say "we" I am referring to my boys...it's an opportunity for us to do something together as a family).
Here's where things are right now: I have purchased some books (Blade's Guide to Making Knives by Joe Kertzman, Step-by-Step Knifemaking: You Can Do It! by David Boyd and the $50 Knife Shop by Wayne Goddard). I also have a DVD on order to look at. I have read countless threads to get ideas. We will likely start with a drop point fixed blade and "customize" each knife with a different set of scales. My sons and I are looking at purchasing a drill press shortly because we have many uses other than making knives (I have been more of a woodworker than a metal worker so my shop was more set up in that manner). Once we have read through some of the resources and the various threads, we will be ordering our first batch of flat stock. Still looking at which steel we will use. I will likely send the blades out for HT since I am not yet set up for that. Kinda a crazy thing here but we hope to turn this into a family hobby that will give us years of working together.

My original post (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=787555) provides a bit more info on "why" we are doing this project but I am looking forward to advise and insight.

I hope to connect with some local knifemakers but time will tell how this works out. Thanks for your encouragement!

 

[dadarrow]

I wouldn't call myself a professional, but I'm working on some knives now and have completed some over the last few months. Just wanted to drop a line since I live in Spokane. I have been working with 5160 spring steel from leaf springs and doing my own HT, but I work out of my basement and it is hardly a shop.

I've been using a belt sander 3x21 and a 1x30 sander so not the best tools, but its been working. You can email me FAIRVIEWAL at gmail if you want to chat more.

Here are the ones that I have finished

Hey, thanks for letting me know you are in the area! I will be looking you up shortly!

 

[Erin Burke]

I lived in Spokane for a few years, but I'm an Okanogan valley kid by birth and a western Washington dude these days. You're going to get a lot of different answers to your questions... but these are mine.

Questions:
1). Fixed blade steel: for this first set of knives, I would appreciate a recommendation on what steel would be an all around good steel. O-1 has been recommended.

1080/1084 tends to be a good bet if you plan on heat-treating yourself. I buy my steel from Kelly Cupples over in Yakima. He has some 1080 in 1/8" and 3/16"... good for stock removal. He also does not charge for shipping if you buy more than $100 worth of steel. Always great to deal with.

2). What would be essential for tools? I have a shop that I will begin furnishing with the proper equipment (as $ allows) but I would love some insight into a prioritization of equipment. I currently have a small belt sander and a bandsaw. I have a bench vise but not much else.

"Essential" means different things to different people. I bought my KMG belt grinder before making my first knife. It was one of the first pieces of knifemaking equipment I bought. Some will steer you to make your first few knives with nothing but a hacksaw, some files and some sandpaper. That works really well for a lot of folks... but that's not how I did it. I really recommend a good 2x72 grinder. I'm assuming that your bandsaw is a steel saw and not a wood saw. If it's not, I'd get a decent steel bandsaw... I have a Dewalt portaband.

3). I have looked at many of the archives or threads that recommend resources.

Keep digging through knifemaking forums. Bladeforums and Knifedogs are two of my favorites. Search for the term "WIP". This stands for Work In Progress. You'll find tons of threads where folks (including me) have documented their builds.

Good luck.

 

[kyleraines]

My sons and I are looking at purchasing a drill press shortly because we have many uses other than making knives (I have been more of a woodworker than a metal worker so my shop was more set up in that manner).

My grandfather was a carpenter and I inherited his tools when he died. I started out using just those tools, nothing more. With a little ingenuity, you'll all have a blast. My daughter's only four but when she sees me looking at the latest knives online she says "Oooh, Knives" so I can't wait to make her first knife with her.