Just the Knives or Makers?

[Kevin Jones]

I was reviewing the recent thread “does it fit in my collection” and starting wondering about the criteria by which collectors use as the basics for building or maintaining their collections.
Not so much the style knife or the particular knife they like but rather their preference or lack of it towards which maker’s knives they buy.

For example, when selecting a new piece for your collection is it just about the knives or do you typically gravitate towards specific makers?

Say if your collection contains 50 knives, would there be 50 knives by 8 makers or more like 50 knives by 38 makers?

Is there any advantage to tailoring your collection towards specific makers ?

Allows you to be more knowledgeable about what you are buying, therefore making better decisions ?

Allows you to possibly get a discounted price by being a repeat or long time customer ?

Allows you to possibly have a shorter wait in getting a special order piece created ?

Allows you to possibly have an advantage over other collectors in getting a “one of” or “special” piece ?

Allows you to “partner” with the maker to promote his work, thus increasing the likelihood that your knives will go up in value ?

Any disadvantages ?

Possibly causes you to pass on some knives that you really like ?

Possibly causes your collection to be less versatile or mainstream since fewer makers are represented ?

Tendency for buying more expensive knives than if acquired from many makers.

Advantages and disadvantages to buying knives solely on a particular knife’s merit. Regardless of maker ?

Just some of my thought for discussion……

 

[commodorewheeler]

I was reviewing the recent thread “does it fit in my collection” and starting wondering about the criteria by which collectors use as the basics for building or maintaining their collections.
Not so much the style knife or the particular knife they like but rather their preference or lack of it towards which maker’s knives they buy.

For example, when selecting a new piece for your collection is it just about the knives or do you typically gravitate towards specific makers?

For me, both. I gravitate towards specific makers because of past experience with the quality of their work and their customer service. However, if I am unfamiliar with the maker, I will still buy the piece if I really like it.

Say if your collection contains 50 knives, would there be 50 knives by 8 makers or more like 50 knives by 38 makers?

For me, 8 makers is more likely. The longer I have collected, the pickier I have gotten in terms of my preferences, and I've learned that the number of makers out there who consistently make pieces that match my personal preferences well is definitely in the minority.

Is there any advantage to tailoring your collection towards specific makers ?

I think so. By sticking to knifemakers you are familiar with, you know better what you are getting in terms of the quality of the work, and you know what kind of customer service you will get when you need servicing on the piece.

Allows you to be more knowledgeable about what you are buying, therefore making better decisions ?

Yes, definitely.

Allows you to possibly get a discounted price by being a repeat or long time customer ?

This is certainly not my expectation of any maker, even a friend.

Allows you to possibly have a shorter wait in getting a special order piece created ?

Again, definitely not an expectation of mine for any maker, even a friend, but I will never turn down the opportunity here if it is offered.

Allows you to possibly have an advantage over other collectors in getting a “one of” or “special” piece ?

Same as above.

Allows you to “partner” with the maker to promote his work, thus increasing the likelihood that your knives will go up in value ?

I think it takes a lot of people to promote a single maker's work enough to drive up value. That being said, if I am really pleased with a piece that I get, I will always give public praise where it is due.

Any disadvantages ?

Possible lack of variety.

Possibly causes you to pass on some knives that you really like ?

Never, I will always buy something that I really like, regardless of who makes it, unless the maker has a history of poor customer service.

Possibly causes your collection to be less versatile or mainstream since fewer makers are represented ?

Certainly a possibility.

Tendency for buying more expensive knives than if acquired from many makers.

Yes, but as long as you are buying what you truly like, you'll be happier this way.

Advantages and disadvantages to buying knives solely on a particular knife’s merit. Regardless of maker ?

The big ones I can think of are the possibility of poor resale value in case your tastes change or you need cash, and the possibility that you are buying from someone with really poor customer service.

Just some of my thought for discussion……

Great questions!

 

[shaldag]

Ok, I'll play too.

For example, when selecting a new piece for your collection is it just about the knives or do you typically gravitate towards specific makers?

It's about both. I like to carry a knife and think that the guy who made it means something to me.

Say if your collection contains 50 knives, would there be 50 knives by 8 makers or more like 50 knives by 38 makers?

Closer to 8 makers.

Is there any advantage to tailoring your collection towards specific makers ?

Those makeers do patterns that I really like, and/or are willing to work with me to add some ideas that I might have.

Allows you to be more knowledgeable about what you are buying, therefore making better decisions ?


Yes, because the makers will spend considerable amounts of time talking to me and explaining things.

Allows you to possibly get a discounted price by being a repeat or long time customer ?

Many of my favorite makers will do this, and it comes in handy. I consider it a courtesy, but not a necessity.

Allows you to possibly have a shorter wait in getting a special order piece created ?

See above.

Allows you to possibly have an advantage over other collectors in getting a “one of” or “special” piece ?

Well, yes--. But that's because of my initative. There are a few makers that I will call from time to time and say "watchoo got cookin in the fire?" This came in very handy, for example, when I found out I couldn't go to Blade this year. I called the makers that I was planning to visit right when I got in--and got the knives before the show.

Allows you to “partner” with the maker to promote his work, thus increasing the likelihood that your knives will go up in value ?

nope.

Any disadvantages ?

not that I can see.

Possibly causes you to pass on some knives that you really like ?

If I like a knife that much and can afford it, I'll buy it. Unless the maker is just that much of a SOB--in which case my liking for the knife will certainly be lessened.

Possibly causes your collection to be less versatile or mainstream since fewer makers are represented ?

I like some styles that do not seem to be too popular, so you got me there.

Tendency for buying more expensive knives than if acquired from many makers.

The makers whose work I seem to go for are affordable to me. If it's just too much, I can shine it on. I have no problem with telling even my favorite makers that "that one is a beaut, but way out of my price range." These guys all work hard for a living and have families to feed--they understand that I do too.

Advantages and disadvantages to buying knives solely on a particular knife’s merit. Regardless of maker ?

If it really lights your fire, then go for it!

 

[markv]

yeah, network. you are more likely to return to familiar ground.
talking to the blademaster is always a good idea, if he has the time.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

My interest starts by seeing knives made by different makers and deciding which ones appeal to me the most. So it is first the knives that attract me and then the makers have to impress me that they are people that I want to do business with. I am not attracted to makers because of their standing or their collectibility, but instead by whether they make knives that impress me.

At this point I don't have two knives from the same maker. So I guess I would be one to have 50 knives from 50 makers. However, that is changing. As I find makers that produce knives that I really love, I am starting to look at getting more than one knife from at least one maker, and probably will so the same with a couple of others.

The advantage I see in collecting from specific makers is that you are going to get knives that you know you will like.

I don't know about discounts. It isn't something that I have ever thought about.

I think repeat customers do often get better delivery times.

Makers may possibly be more willing to do a one of, or really special knife, for repeat customers.

I tend to partner with the makers that I order from, and that would be the same whether it was one knife or many.

I have to pass on knives I would really like all the time.

In my opinion, it would affect the variety, but not the quality of a collection.

For me there would be no difference in the price I would pay for the knives. I look at each individual purchase based on what I can afford to spend.

One disadvantage I see in working with a few selected makers is that you don't get to meet and know as many of them. I really like getting to know the makers.

 

[jdm61]

My collection, which currently consists of 22 customs and an indeterminate, but close to equal number of factory blades was aquired somewhat piecemeal until recently, when I went on a custom buying frenzy For the customs, I tend to buy based on a weird, somewhat overlapping mix of maker, knifemaking "school", construction method, style. All of my customs are forged and all except for one Pendray integral wootz hunter, one Fitch damscus dirk and one McWilliams forged T440V (CPM60V?) fighter are carbon steel. As for as specific makers, that kinda blurs a bit with the "school" thing. I have 2 Morans, but I also have 2 Hendricksons, 2 Setnz's, a Barney Barnes and a Hudson from the Maryland "school". Same with the Arkansas/Texas. etc. guys. One Fisk and ones from Crowell, Jerome Anders, Fitch, Dean, Cook, Bagwell. There are some oddballs bought because I liked the maker and the particular knife. Ones by Caffrey, Tomes, Ochs, Rodebaugh. The collection of factory knives is kinda strange. A lot of them were picked up when I was younger and in the military. Gerber Mk1's, an old Mk2 with the "cat's tongue" handle finish, an old brass frame Gerber folder, an EK bowie, couple of early SOG's, the Al Mar Mike Echanis knife. Other were bought because i liked what the companies were doing. Several Benchmade folders, a number of Blackjacks and Bark Rivers. Others were bought because they were factory copies of custom blades that I thought I would never be able to find or afford or both. The Camillus Fisk bowies, the Blackjack Moran Rio Grande, The Spyderco Moran featherweight and most recently, 3 of the Ontario Bagwell bowies, which were boght more for patterns. A weird, convulated way of aquiring a somewhat eclectic mix of knives. As for resale, I don't sell or trade anymore. I traded 4 Randalls for a pre-'64 Winchester Model 70 a number of years back and regret it. I had an oddball stick tang stag handled Model 14 bought out of the display case at the Randall shop that would be worth more than the rifle by itself today.

 

[Kevin Jones]

It seems when collectors initially start their collection, they buy whatever catches their eye. Then they tend to refine their collections as they learn more about and interest grows towards specific types of knives. Then they gravitate towards, become more familiar and buy from these specific makers who offer those types of knives.

I believe it's a win / win situation when collectors and makers form these types of relationships.
The collector is in a better position to get the knives he wants and the maker starts to build a client base where he can better project how many knives he will need to make to supply "his or her market" during a given period.

I mentioned a collector / maker partnership in my initial post. That's no more that a informal relationship between a collector and a maker that benefits both.

I believe a modest number of collectors who support a specific maker can have quite an effect on that maker's success and in turn help the collector's collection hold it's value or increase in value long term.

I define support as not just buying the maker's knives, however talking him up on forums and at shows, posting photos and showing your collection as much as possible and just promoting the maker and the handmade knife industry in general.

 

[SharpByCoop]

I think you are spot on in your assessment in the above post. I came into the custom world and started buying in a frenzy. Probably 75% of the early pieces I acquired have been resold. (Many at a loss--that's the education of knowing what to buy that has changed me) That's all OK. It was the price of my education.

Nonetheless, Collectors and their tastes are personalities, and as such, the range of 'guidelines' varies wildly.

I easily will consider my collection (myself?? ) ecclectic. I remain faithful to Les Robertson's adage: "Buy what you like", and that can be construed both negative and positive.

Of the 60+ customs I own, I have one primary focus: Knives by Hill Pearce. (Kevin, do a search on my started posts to see. You are in for a treat!) 12 pieces and I remain faithful to his work. Outside of him, I own only two pieces by any other single maker.

I *really* like to explore and there is certainly far more quality makers out there that I would like to own a piece from, and so I usually gravitate in another direction after scratching a maker's itch. But, that's me.

I have a combination of tactical and traditional knives. Every variety, really. I pride myself in enjoying all of them as they each offer something different.

I define support as not just buying the maker's knives, however talking him up on forums and at shows, posting photos and showing your collection as much as possible and just promoting the maker and the handmade knife industry in general.

Nowhere is this more apparent than right here. It's healthy for the industry and VERY real social phenomenon. When good work is supported by a maker with good communication and quality participation in the process, they are bound to succeed. The opposite is true, regardless of the quality.

By the power of my photograpy, I have and can help to influence a number of makers. (Witness the Chinese folding subhilt for 4 pages of enthusiasm given an unknown.) I am also passionate about knives and I try to convey this sense to all. You guys know this.

I lack in not creating enough commissions with makers. Many of my acquisitions come through the secondary market or from a dealer. In the end, EVERY sale helps a maker, so I don't agonize over this.

Good points. I went off on a 'me' tangent. Isn't that human....

Coop

 

[Kevin Jones]

By the power of my photograpy, I have and can help to influence a number of makers. (Witness the Chinese folding subhilt for 4 pages of enthusiasm given an unknown.) I am also passionate about knives and I try to convey this sense to all. You guys know this.

Good points. I went off on a 'me' tangent. Isn't that human....

Coop

Good point Coop.
Speaking from a collector's viewpoint, having your knives professionally photographed is another very impactful way to help promote the maker of your knives, as most photographers send your photos to the publications and it's definitely a win / win situation when a maker / collector's knife makes it into one of the magazines.
Most makers don't have the budget to photograph every knife they make. I always like to send the maker a copy of the photographs I have taken.

As for the "me" tangent is OK with me as participants on the forum are very knowledgeable and I welcome learning about them.
I know several of my opinions and the way I view things have changed after listening to other's views here.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I am not attracted to makers because of their standing or their collectibility, but instead by whether they make knives that impress me.

Season's Greetings Keith.

How much does the probability that the knife will hold or possibly increase in value influence your decision to purchase?

Does the maker's probability of longevity as a maker enter the decision?

 

[moonwilson]

My collection is all over the place. Just when I think I have something narrowed down, something else will interest me, and then I'll meander into that area for a while. Whatever I find interesting at the moment, that's what I buy.

When I first started out, I would buy whatever I could find and I thought was "cool"- by virtue of design, features, materials etc. Then I collected Spyderco, then Cold Steel (yes, I know) then Benchmade, then Spyderco again, then Case. My collection now consists of a lot of knives from a lot of different makers, with no individual piece having cost me more than $200. But the accumulated total of what I've spent has to be over $10,000 (over my lifetime).

Lately I've been debating whether I want to start collecting customs or high-end production models, like Busse or Strider or Chris Reeve. My level of income and expenses dictates how much I can afford to spend on knives, so I can either get a few really nice pieces, or a lot of pretty good pieces. I haven't had enough disposable income together at one time in a while to afford a higher-end piece, so the decision is pretty well made for me at this point. Down the line, when I can afford it, I do want to get some really nice knives.

But for me (and my wife) collecting knives is small potatoes. I realized that I spent (a lot) more just this year on art than I've spent on knives in my lifetime. If I bought less art, I could certainly afford more/better knives. That'd be a hard sell with the wife, though.