Just the tip? -- A Batoning question!

stanley_white

stanley_white

Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Messages
770
I was watching Sean "The Silver Fox" on Youtube and came across the video of his knife design being demonstrated.

I found interesting it interesting that he designed the knife to be batoned away from the tip. Watch this video from 12:03 to 14:15 and you will see what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCD_cWhippg

Since this is the first time I have ever seen it advocated that one baton's away from the tip in order to avoid damage I wanted to bring it to the brain trust here at W&SS and solicit opinions.

Thoughts?

I thought it was a neat idea but at the same time I've never seen anyone on this forum or elsewhere claim to have damaged the tip of their knife batoning.

-Stan
 
Just get a BK2 or an ESEE 5 and you'll be fine. Those are some tough knives, and I'd like to see someone damage the tip of one of those batoning through any wood. :cool:
 
the new way of batoning he promotes ... beating the blade between the handle and the wood being split is how I thought you was sposed to do it ... its how I was shown by grandpa when I was a kid , but he was splitting roofing iorn too , not just wood

I cannot see why using a wooden baton to beat on a blade near the tip should damage the blade , unless it is allready a knife too fragile for the job at hand and youre just abusing it

that being said tho , Im not an expert
 
i've always just smashed on the spine till the knife was in then smashed on the tip. knives like the bk2 and esee 5 shouldnt have a problem.

the knife he designed looks kinda crazy. also, if you're batonning closer to the handle, isnt there more of a chance that you'd smash your hand/fingers?

like myal said, if a knifes tip is too frail for the job, perhaps the whole knife isnt meant to be batonned regardless of where you're hitting it.
 
Batoning with a rock will damage any knife, but that is definately not recomended. I have never made a baton out of Oak, though. That might be able to cause a chip or something.
 
I've heard people say before that the ways he shows is the correct way but when I've tried it it seems all wrong.
For one thing it hurts my hand that I'm holding the knife with and then there is the problem of blade length V's Wood diameter. Using my 7 1/2" bladed Chopweiler I can split a section of wood close around 7" across, however if I'm leaving space near the handle to strike then the wood would be limited to mayb3 3-4" !
 
Any knife with a long enough blade is capable of battoning that way.
Also, as mentioned, if you break the tip of ur knife battoning, a few things
Are wrong; ur knife is not heavy use enough for the task, the blade is to brittle
Or your using a Louisville slugger to beat through a knot on a piece of seasoned
Oak.
 
If a knife has that fragile of a tip, it shouldn't be used to baton with in the first place. With that said, I haven't found one that has failed batoning that I didn't expect to fail yet. ;)
 
I agree that you shouldn't hit the fragile tip with a baton - but my BK-2 doesn't have a 'fragile' tip, so no problems there.

My BK-9 isn't a problem either, you can hit the end near the tip without needing to hit the actual tip - that's the advantage of 9" of blade! If you are batoning a 5" diameter log you can easily have an inch of blade clear of the wood near the handle and 3" of spare blade near the tip - that's a good 3" of blade to beat so you don't need to hit the very tip.

My KA-BAR kukri machete has enough belly so that you can be half way through the wood before you run out of spine above the wood and have to start hitting the tip. It is also long enough to give you plenty of spine to hit without having to use the very end of the knife to hit with the baton.

On the video it seemed that his technique worked very well for that particular knife - if I had that knife I'd probably use the same technique as him.
 
His knife design looks like a large, Nessmuk-ish, weight forward design, of which smaller versions seem popular among woodsmen. Not personally my style of knife, but I can see the functionality of it. But I just can't see me affixing my knife at one end, applying upward force at the other end, and striking it with downward force in between those two points. I can see how repeatedly striking the very tip of a knife with a hard object could lead to tip failure, though I have never had it happen. I guess I tend to not use really hard woods as a baton and rarely baton anything really large unless I am testing a knife. But I know that I would much rather risk a tip failure than a failure at the handle or a glancing blow striking my weak hand.
 
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I duno that its needed to have a lot of blade to baton on ...
I battoned this knife thru a 4x2 a few times .
100_5159.jpg


it didnt complain , and it did take a bit of a beating on . there is a lot to knowing where to hit and being able to hit there repeatedly :) ...
( I did hit my hand a few times doing this tho I admit ... fortunately my hand protected the handle from damage My wife laughing at me for being so silly made it a lil difficult to concerntrate... giggling and battoning can be hazardous to ya fingers )

100_5170.jpg


If I hadnt have made it myself tho , I wouldnt have been brave enough to give it such a beating on

I wouldnt want to have to do it in a survival situation tho , I did it that time to prove to the guy I made it for that you CAN do that to a knife so small , and more , and it wont fail on ya
 
I almost always hit the tip of the knife when batoning :) Haven't had any problems yet ;) The knife I use for batoning is the finnish M95 Ranger knife which is 0.22 full flat zone hardened drop forged carbon steel so it's pretty strong.
 
Um, yea... no thanks... I'll keep hitting the "tip" and holding the handle in my hand.

Ski
 
If using a knife that does not have a full length/width tang (Example: Ka-bar Mk II), do not rock the blade by pushing down on the handle -- creating a fulcrum near the handle --- and then hit the tip. That puts unnecessary stress on the blade/tang junction and may lead to unhappiness. 0___0
 
Seems pretty gimiky to me, like creating a solution to a non existant problem Seems he built a new uber survival knife in an exagerated nessemuk style then invented a reason....... just my .02
 
Triq said:
Seems pretty gimiky to me, like creating a solution to a non existant problem Seems he built a new uber survival knife in an exagerated nessemuk style then invented a reason....... just my .02
Click to expand...

I dunno - the knife seems to work, I think of gimmicky as stuff that looks good in a display case but isn't actually practical.
Kinda like the Rambo knife with the hollow handle for matches & needle & stuff - it's a rubbish survival knife and a good survival kit in your pocket combined with a good full tang survival knife would be WAY better. Cool knife like in the movie = gimmicky (IMO of course). Dark Ops tactical knives also seem very gimmicky.
The Silver Fox Bushcraft knife may not be to everyone's tastes, but it seems fairly practical rather than gimmicky.

TBH
I think that if you have concerns that the tip may break when batoning, you are probably not using the right knife for the job. My Beckers don't give me such concerns.
 
I've batonned my ESEE3 really hard many times in the wood. No damage to the tip whatsoever. A well made knife should not break during wood batonning. The design, IMHO, is secondary.
 
I baton wood all the time and have never had a problem. I do it on the other side of the wood towards the tip (the way most people do). I only baton full tang knives of appropriate thickness, with either a convex grind, flat grind with convex edge, or a full flat grind. I also try and keep knife parallel with the ground as much as possible while batonning. I don't think of this as abuse at all.
 
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