K390 Versus S110V Mule

R

ricklee4570

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Aug 12, 2010
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Spyderco is soon to introduce the latest Mule offering in S110V RC 60/61.

Anyone know how this will compare to the Mule in K390 as far as edge retention?
 
These two steels have to be pretty close for edge retention. 10V, K390, S110V and K294 all seem in the same range of super high edge retention with reasonable toughness.

My K390 stays sharp forever, but I have noticed some very tiny microchips on the edge. Oddly, those chips seem to make the blade just eat cardboard.
 
Twindog said:
These two steels have to be pretty close for edge retention. 10V, K390, S110V and K294 all seem in the same range of super high edge retention with reasonable toughness.

My K390 stays sharp forever, but I have noticed some very tiny microchips on the edge. Oddly, those chips seem to make the blade just eat cardboard.
Click to expand...

Did you pretty much maintain the same edge angle as the factory or did you thin down your edge?
 
Usually, I reprofile everything at 30 degrees inclusive on my Wicked Edge. But this time, because these hard steels can take a while to reprofile by hand, I used an old Worksharp. The edge is not as good as what I would get with my WE, but the edge was sharp, albeit a bit coarse and convex. The angle measures 30 degrees inclusive on my laser protractor.

I'm guessing on on this, but the slightly coarse edge makes a really aggressive cutter, and the hardness of the steel keeps the microserations sharp for a long time.
 
I haven't used either steel (still waiting for my s110v native), but thanks to your post I impulse bought the s110v mule :)
 
I doubt that S110V would suit to be consider as a good blade steel since it has too much carbon/alloy. The matrix of these steel will has shitload of carbide which opposed to the lower martensite structure remainded thus this steel would has very poor edge stability/toughness. From my point of view the usability of S110V isn't very far from ceramic.

I'm sure K390 will hold an edge noticeable longer than S110V.
 
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I have no experience with s110v, thus here is my wag comparison.

I agree K390 has better edge retention than s110v, says maybe by 25%. I think, S110V additional alloying of 3.5% Niobium help stabilize matrix and add extra wear resistance. So s110v is an improved s90v. In all, Chromium gives surface protection but take/degrade matrix strength & toughness.

It would be fun if I can buy a bar of s110v to tinker around with...

shqxk said:
I doubt that S110V would suit to be consider as a good blade steel since it has too much carbon/alloy. The matrix of these steel will has shitload of carbide which opposed to the lower martensite structure remainded thus this steel would has very poor edge stability/toughness. From my point of view the usability of S110V isn't very far from ceramic.

I'm sure K390 will hold an edge noticeable longer than S110V.
Click to expand...
 
Hey Blunt, Don't monkey around with that cheap S-110-V. Go get some S-125-V. You will be much happier.
 
tiguy7 said:
Hey Blunt, Don't monkey around with that cheap S-110-V. Go get some S-125-V. You will be much happier.
Click to expand...
Phil Wilson walked away from s125v if that tells you anything... Blunt if you get a line on a hunk of s110v I will split the cost. I bet you would have some fun with that! Russ
 
I don't believe s125v is even available anymore. And s110v is anything but "cheap" in any sense of the word. When custom makers like RJ Martin, Phil Wilson use it, and a company like Spyderco uses it in exclusive sprint runs, including it's own forum knife, you know it's one of the very best steels out there, provided it has the correct heat treat of HRC 62-63. Below that to paraphrase Jim Ankerson, it's like running a Indy car on flat tires.
 
Ray Allen said:
I don't believe s125v is even available anymore. And s110v is anything but "cheap" in any sense of the word. When custom makers like RJ Martin, Phil Wilson use it, and a company like Spyderco uses it in exclusive sprint runs, including it's own forum knife, you know it's one of the very best steels out there, provided it has the correct heat treat of HRC 62-63. Below that to paraphrase Jim Ankerson, it's like running a Indy car on flat tires.
Click to expand...

He was kidding. Russ
 
Hey Tiguy7, is there a s125v stealth knife in your collection?

I would pick s110v (9% V + 3.5%Nib) over s125v(12% V). Now cpm-rex 86 (10%W, 5%V, 9%Co) would be a super cool way to shred belts & a puddle of sweat to work on.

Russ - Niagara Specialty Metals has s110v but I guess - they sell in large qty or high min order $.
 
I will email you in the morning Man. I think I can get us a smaller chunk if you are interested. Russ
 
Twindog said:
Usually, I reprofile everything at 30 degrees inclusive on my Wicked Edge. But this time, because these hard steels can take a while to reprofile by hand, I used an old Worksharp. The edge is not as good as what I would get with my WE, but the edge was sharp, albeit a bit coarse and convex. The angle measures 30 degrees inclusive on my laser protractor.

I'm guessing on on this, but the slightly coarse edge makes a really aggressive cutter, and the hardness of the steel keeps the microserations sharp for a long time.
Click to expand...

Where does one acquire a laser protractor??

Thank you,

Ben
 
bluntcut said:
Hey Tiguy7, is there a s125v stealth knife in your collection?

I would pick s110v (9% V + 3.5%Nib) over s125v(12% V). Now cpm-rex 86 (10%W, 5%V, 9%Co) would be a super cool way to shred belts & a puddle of sweat to work on.

Russ - Niagara Specialty Metals has s110v but I guess - they sell in large qty or high min order $.
Click to expand...

I don't have an S-125-V blade yet, but I haven't stopped looking. The CPM REX 86 isn't stainless. I'm a sweaty guy!
Just picked up a CTS-204P (Southard) and 3 Stellite 6-K knives.
Admiral sold me a 6 ft. chunk of S-90-V (.1875" X 1 1/2" if I remember correctly). You might check with them. They had to heat it up to red hot to shear it. That was the minimum order (6'). $200 in 2004
I understand that Niobium Carbide is harder than Vanadium Carbide which isn't too shabby at an HRC of 82.
 
I'm also very interested in this comparison. I have the k390 Mule, and it is a dream. I re-profiled to 15dps, and though it took about twice as long as the same operation for my M4 blades, it wasn't really that bad (though I don't do it for a living either). I skipped on the s110v Mule because of reports of it being similar to k390, only stainless. I still want the forum Native, however, since stainless in a folder is much more useful than in a fixed blade for me.

Like any good knife enthusiast however, I am immediately rethinking my position on S110v after the Mule is gone. Looking at composition comparisons, s110v and k390 are very similar save for the three-fold increase in chromium content in the former, as well as the inclusion of 1% of tungsten in the latter. The Niobium is the wild card, as I am very hopeful for niobium alloys as one half (the other being nitrogen alloys) of the future of knife steel development. Being a matrix carbide, it has the potential to produce steels with similar wear resistance to vanadium carbides (being almost as hard), while allowing a higher toughness, using optimal heat treatment of course. So has anyone really tested the two side-by-side to really see the differences in toughness, wear resistance, and ease of maintenance?
 
Spyderco is running the Mule in S110V at 60/61. Too bad they didn't go a little higher, I get a feeling another point or two in hardness would make a huge difference.
 
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