KA-BAR D2 extreme or next generation?

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Jul 10, 2011
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I'm looking at buying a KA-BAR, and I've narrowed down my search to the D2 extreme, or one of the next generation knives. I'm only new to this wesite, and I've been reading around and it seems that there are some pretty knowledgable people here. So my question is, what is your recommendation as a general purpose knife for use in the bush? I live in Australia by the way, in the tropics, so it gets pretty humid here in Summer. The main factor for my choice is resistance to rust and general performance. I know the next generation will resist rust better than the D2, but if the D2 resists rust and corrosion quite well for a non stainless metal, and outperforms the next generation in most other apsects, I'll probably get it instead.

Now, I have been researching a fair bit, and have discovered alot in my research. Firstly, from my understanding, the next generation knives are made from 440a stainless, which is supposed to resist rust very well (I know all knives will eventually rust, but apparently 440a is the best at resisting it out of the 440 range of steels). If the D2 will develope a coating of rust after about a few days, then I don't think it would be suitable for me. I dont know about the edge holding capabiliteies of this steel, or if it gets a sharp edge compared to the D2. I also understand that the 440a steel is tougher than D2, and will bend/ flex more so it is less likely to snap and chip. However, I have also found out that the D2 steel is very strong, and would take a huge force to end up snapping/ chipping, and I am unlikely to expose it to that kind of force. So, my questions for you are:

1: How well does D2 resist rust compared to 440a, and how well does it resist rust in general?

2:How long would it take for D2 to rust if it was neglected from care for whatever reason?

3: Does 440a hold a better edge than D2? (i know D2 will hold it for longer, because its a much more abrasion resistant steel, but does 440a hold a sharper edge?)

4: How long does the next generation 440a KA-BAR hold its sharp edge? Would it need to be sharpened daily with milld use?

5: Does the D2 snap or chip very easily? Becasue I found videos of a guy on youtube (noss4) who tests a D2 KA-BAR and tries to cut through concrete with it and it doesn't chip at all. That being said, has anyone at all had problems with D2 being too brittle? Does the metal chip and snap very easily?

You can probably tell my biggest concern is rust, but I have never really liked knives that rust, simply because I had a rusty old pocket knife, removed all the rust with steel wool and wd-40 and rustbuster and coated it with wd-40 and cleaned it everyday but it still rusted. I don't understand how people can have knives that rust so easily. Anyway, the rust is my biggest concern. Thats why I didn't even look at the USMC fighting knives and the black versions. I would think D2 would outperform 440a in almost all ways but rust resistance because it is more abrasion resistant etc. but I could be wrong. I did find a few videos on youtube by noss4 of him putting a D2 extreme through alot of punishment (cutting concrete, stabbing sheetmetal etc) and I liked what I saw in terms of performance (apparently D2 is supposed to be really brittle, but this video didn't show the D2 as a brittle blade because he cut through concrete without the balde chipping). Howver, one thing they cannot show in the video is rust resitance. I doubt the 440a blade would perform as well as the D2 in most areas, but like I said. Rust resistance is my primary concern, and if the D2 can handle rust reasonably well, I'll get it.
 
1: How well does D2 resist rust compared to 440a, and how well does it resist rust in general?

2:How long would it take for D2 to rust if it was neglected from care for whatever reason?

3: Does 440a hold a better edge than D2? (i know D2 will hold it for longer, because its a much more abrasion resistant steel, but does 440a hold a sharper edge?)

4: How long does the next generation 440a KA-BAR hold its sharp edge? Would it need to be sharpened daily with milld use?

5: Does the D2 snap or chip very easily? Becasue I found videos of a guy on youtube (noss4) who tests a D2 KA-BAR and tries to cut through concrete with it and it doesn't chip at all. That being said, has anyone at all had problems with D2 being too brittle? Does the metal chip and snap very easily?

1. D2 is classified as a tool steel not a stainless steel. It will rust if not taken care of. But the Kabar has an epoxy coated blade so rust is not an issue exept for the very small exposed edge, a bit of oil takes care of that and if it gets rust just sharpening will take it out.

2. Quite quickly but see 1. Rust is not a problem with Kabars.

3. 440a is notorious for not holding an edge very well, in fact it is one of the less used steels in knives. I would not recomend it for hard use. Also the Next Gen has been reported as breaking easily in the tang due to 440a brittleness.


4. That's totally dependand on what kind of use but it wont hold it as long as D2 or 1095CV.

5. Yes it can chip quite easy as it is very hard and somewhat brittle specially if you encounter hard materials like nails and rocks when cutting. Also due to its hardness D2 holds and edge for a long time but it is a b!tch to sharpen.

IMHO I recomend an original 1095 Kabar with Kraton handle over the Next-Gen and D2 extreme. Unless you are going to take the knife diving in salt water you will not have rust problems with the 1095 as the coating protects the blade and the exposed edge can easily be touched up to remove any rust in it.

D2 performs great but chips and is hard to sharpen. 440a does not hold a good edge and in a large knife breaks easily. 1095 is a proven steel for the Kabar design and offers a much better value, holds an edge almost as long as D2 and is flexible enough not to break. There is a reason why some High end manufacturers still use 1095 like ESEE-RAT and Tops knives.
 
1. d2 is semi stainless, it will rust if not cared properly,440a is really stainless, you shouldn't worry bout it rusting.
2. well it depends on the environment you know. just keep it oiled and you'll be fine.
3. no way, unless you dont use your knives and soak'em into salt water, the d2 will rust dull faster then 440a, then in that case, 440a wins. 440a is easier to sharpen, especially in the field.
4. It depends on what you use it for. But in general use, I think you should sharpen it every 2days... Or if you just look at knives like me, sharpen it annually
5. again, depends on what you use it for. Is you use it for rope/cardboard/food/strap... it's gonna be fine.
If you use it to baton through wood, maybe it'll chip. At 58-60 and kabar treatment, I don't think it'll chip in wood working, unless you hit the dirt/rock
I think you should go for 440a, not gonna rust, chip and rally easy to sharpen...
 
Both blades are coated, so that will help to reduce any rusting issues until the coating wears through. The D2 will rust faster than the 440A, because 440A has more chromium in it's formulation. D2 is pretty corrosion resistant for a tool steel compared to basic steels such as 10xx series, O1, A2, etc. Any blade, regardless of steel, benefits from at least a daily wipe down when used in wet, humid, or salty conditions. My favorite steel is 1095 which has no real corrosion resistant properties, yet I have no issues with rust even in the humid summer conditions of the American Midwest. They get wiped after use and occasionally during storage and that's about it.

D2 will hold an edge much longer than the 440A will, but D2 is also much harder to sharpen than 440A is. I'm a believer in touching up knives frequently during use, as it's much easier to keep a knife sharp VS letting it get too dull to use and then doing a total sharpening on it. I've had the Next Gen in 440A and it took a beautifully sharp edge, easily push cutting paper and popping hair. I really didn't use it that much, so I can't comment on edge holding, but previous use of 440A other knives leads me to say that it's ok, but not impressive. Kabar has it's heat treats right on, so I believe that you will get as much performance as possible out of their 440A. I've also had a Kabar FIN in D2 and it takes a superb edge too and keeps cutting for a very long time. D2 will not hold a razor's edge as long as some steels, but it holds a working edge much longer than most steels.

In the end, I think that either one will be fine for your needs. Decide on whether you want an easy to sharpen steel or a steel that holds an edge for an extremely long time.
 
I don't much care for 440a it just dosn't hold an edge very well, D2 can be brittle but I havn't had much trouble with it chipping or breaking. The coating will protect the blade from rust. 1095 is more flexible and holds an edge almost as long as d2.

Wd40 is not a rust preventative if you use it on your knives or guns you are going to get rust. Use a good oil, rem oil, 3 in 1 oil, something like that.

good luck and take it easy
cricket
 
My FIN in D2 held up fine to abuse. I beat the snot out of it and it never chipped or broke. I used it to baton, chop, pry pallets apart, I hammered it into a tree and snapped it out laterally, pounded it into a steel drum, etc, with no issues.
 
My Next Gen has been fantastic

The 440A Ka-Bar uses holds a perfectly fine edge for field use, will roll an edge before it chips or breaks, and is very easy to field sharpen

Regardless of internet banter, it is more knife than 99% of all users will ever neeed; even if they THINK they need something better

Oh, and you can get it cheap too :)
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. Like I said, I'm not really too interested in the 1095 KA-BAR's, simply because they would rust too easily for me. I'm sure they are a great knife, and the fact that they bend and roll before they would snap is a bonus, but the rust. I know cramsey3006 said that his 1095 blades manage rust fine with wipe downs after use and in storage, but theres just the problem that IMO the 1095 steel would rust too quickly for me. However, that being said, with what some people are saying about the capabilities of 1095cv, I have put it back on my list of knives to consider. I know someone who has a bowie knife with a blade made in germany (I think) and it's quite a good blade, and I know it is not stainless. I'll have to ask him what kind of steel it is though, because if that is a 1095cv steel (I aslo know the blade is a carbon steel), then it resists rust alot better than what I thought, because he keeps it in a leather sheath in a draw and hasn't even cared for it with oil in ages. If it is 1095cv, then it suits me perfectly, because the blade shows absolutely no isgns of rust after around 30 years. BTW, thankyou cricketdave for your response on wd40 not being a rust preventative. I always thought it would prevent rust.
 
I don't much care for 440a it just dosn't hold an edge very well, D2 can be brittle but I havn't had much trouble with it chipping or breaking. The coating will protect the blade from rust. 1095 is more flexible and holds an edge almost as long as d2.

Wd40 is not a rust preventative if you use it on your knives or guns you are going to get rust. Use a good oil, rem oil, 3 in 1 oil, something like that.

good luck and take it easy
cricket

I'm sorry are you sure?
cuz I don't think 1095 performs that good...
I have 1095cv from kabar and it out performs my aus8 even 440c, but it's nowhere around D2 IMO
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. Like I said, I'm not really too interested in the 1095 KA-BAR's, simply because they would rust too easily for me. I'm sure they are a great knife, and the fact that they bend and roll before they would snap is a bonus, but the rust. I know cramsey3006 said that his 1095 blades manage rust fine with wipe downs after use and in storage, but theres just the problem that IMO the 1095 steel would rust too quickly for me. However, that being said, with what some people are saying about the capabilities of 1095cv, I have put it back on my list of knives to consider. I know someone who has a bowie knife with a blade made in germany (I think) and it's quite a good blade, and I know it is not stainless. I'll have to ask him what kind of steel it is though, because if that is a 1095cv steel (I aslo know the blade is a carbon steel), then it resists rust alot better than what I thought, because he keeps it in a leather sheath in a draw and hasn't even cared for it with oil in ages. If it is 1095cv, then it suits me perfectly, because the blade shows absolutely no isgns of rust after around 30 years. BTW, thankyou cricketdave for your response on wd40 not being a rust preventative. I always thought it would prevent rust.

As I said about the rust: 1095 is rust prone, but Ka-bars are coated which prevents rusting. The only exposed area is the edge and if you don't oil or protect it simple routine sharpening will keep it rust free. Keep in mind there are still kabars from WWII used and abused in everything including salt water and not oiled. D2 not being an stainless steel will rust too and for a Ka-bar is not worth the extra cost IMHO.

If you want to go with SS I recommend you look into a higher performance one like SV30, knives made from SV30 and similar are expensive but worth it.
 
I'm looking at buying a KA-BAR, and I've narrowed down my search to the D2 extreme, or one of the next generation knives. I'm only new to this wesite, and I've been reading around and it seems that there are some pretty knowledgable people here. So my question is, what is your recommendation as a general purpose knife for use in the bush? ....


...I did find a few videos on youtube by noss4 of him putting a D2 extreme through alot of punishment (cutting concrete, stabbing sheetmetal etc) and I liked what I saw in terms of performance (apparently D2 is supposed to be really brittle, but this video didn't show the D2 as a brittle blade because he cut through concrete without the balde chipping). Howver, one thing they cannot show in the video is rust resitance. I doubt the 440a blade would perform as well as the D2 in most areas, but like I said. Rust resistance is my primary concern, and if the D2 can handle rust reasonably well, I'll get it.

Probably not the answer you are looking for....but my "recommendation as a general purpose knife for use in the bush" is "not a KaBar."

KaBar's a fighter designed decades ago. There are way to many knives (in any price range) that are designed specifically for general purpose outdoors use out there to "settle" for a knife that wasn't designed for it.

Bark River Fox River and Fallkniven F1 (it's stainless!) come immediately to mind, but they may be outside your price range. A Mora, a SAK Farmer, and a folding saw are in anybody's price range and will outperform a fighter easily in the bush.

That said...are you planning on cutting concrete and stabbing sheetmetal while in the bush? If not...those tests you are watching are telling you nothing about how a knife will perform in the bush. Something to think about.
 
You do have a point marcinek. It is a fighter knife, and the design is, well...old. And yes, you're right about the video of the guy cutting through concrete, honestly I don't think I'll put my knife through anything near that ind of abuse. I guess that test was just done to show what the capabilities and absolute limits of the knife were, which is always nice to know. All this being said however, since I sarted this thread, I have now discovered rust is not as big of an issue as I thought on knives, and is easily fixable. So I am now broadening my search to other knives, not just kabars (although I do now like the look of the kabar becker BK7 and BK9) and stainless or stain resistant knives. Like you said, a kabar is not the best choice for a survival knife and anyone who needs to cut through concrete should probably... well, not be using a kabar at least. I just liked the video because it showed what the knifes breaking point is, and what it can do. It was just nice to see its a very tough knife and know what its limits are, but like you said, I don't really intend on cutting through concrete while out with my knife. And again, whilst they tell me the physical strenght of the knife, the videos don't tell me how good it would be in the bush (I know he covers woodcutting etc, but the videos are just really a showcase of the knife's abilitys and stregnths and weaknesses, to test wht the limits of it are, like when car companys test the limit of a car by crashing it at 200km/h to see what will happen. You probably won't crash, or even drive at that speed, but if you did crash at 70km/h, you'd be gad the company put the effort in to research what a crash will do to the car and how to minimise the effects).
 
... like when car companys test the limit of a car by crashing it at 200km/h to see what will happen. You probably won't crash, or even drive at that speed, but if you did crash at 70km/h, you'd be gad the company put the effort in to research what a crash will do to the car and how to minimise the effects).

Yes....but if that car does well in the crash test by sacrificing enough trunk space to fit your groceries or headroom to accomodate a person over 4 feet tall, then its a pointless test. If a knife test finds a knife can survive an atomic blast, but the knife can't make a fuzz stick...it's not a good test of a bush knife. A Mora can't chop though concrete. Yet a lot of very experienced outdoors people use them exclusively.

That said...if lugging a big old chopper/basher/smasher around in the bush is what you intend, then those Beckers will serve you well. Check out the Ontario Ranger series as well. I'd go way lighter and leave the big camp knife/chopper in camp, myself.
 
Both knives are coated with either an epoxy or powder coating in the first place, so rust is probably not a big issue in either case.

Besides, you have to be one seriously careless individual if your knife ends up developing serious rust. A drop of oil every once and a while and you'll never have to worry about rust on any blade, be it carbon or stainless. I've literally put my 1095 ESEE Izula away dripping with sweat from a day's work and I've yet to have it develop rust.
 
There was a long time and maybe you bought one of them. But I hope you got Kabar D2 Extreme Fighting knife. This stuff's awesome!
 
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