KA-BAR or Queen, a Tradional History question

I have heard (so take it for what that's worth :D) that depending on the model and time frame, Kabar made knives for Camillus who made knives for Case who made knives for Queen who made knives for Kabar who made knives for Case and Western who made knives for Camillus (even before they were bought by Coleman much less Camillus) .........

The cutlery industry was an incestuous lot. Everyone cooperated more or less and the attitude seems to have been

Camillus rep to the monthly Cutler's Meeting : "Hey, we're making the marlin spike rigging knife next week, how many do y'all want".
Western rep : "We'll take 500"
Buck rep : We'll take 350."
etc......
 
Heck Queen Cutlery made the metal scaled general purpose, (camp, utility, Demo, MIL-K-818), knife for Ontario. The knife companies have been doing this sort of thing ever since there's been a knife industry in the U.S. The reason that Cold Steel stopped offering knives stamped "Carbon V" is because Camillus went out of business.
 
I think you both are right on. ZZ, totally plausible now that I think more about it.

I did not know that about the Carbon V. Thanks for the info sac-troop.
 
TDHurl,

To give you a more definitive answer; Yes. When KA-BAR was part of Cole/ACP, they contracted their Limited Edition Collector Club knives from both Queen and Case. This continued for a bit after ALCAS/Cutco took over KA-BAR. However, the demise of the Collectors Club brought that to a close. The current KA-BAR slippies are made by Canal Street...very nicely, I might add.

zzyzzogeton,

The Toooj definition of the American cutlery industry is: "The largest incestuous and disfunctional family in the world."
When I was at Camillus, there were routinely knives for Gerber, Buck, Case, KA-BAR, Im. Schrade and more going through the lines. It was common practice in the other old time companies as well.
At Camillus, they were sometimes suing and contracting from/to a company at the same time.

sac troop,

The end of Carbon V was not directly related to the closing of Camillus. There was a lot of behind the scenes stuff that factored into it but Camillus closing put the final nails in the coffin.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Toooj
 
sac troop said:
Heck Queen Cutlery made the metal scaled general purpose, (camp, utility, Demo, MIL-K-818), knife for Ontario.
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That's not that strange. Both Queen and Ontario were fully owned subsidiaries of Servotronics since late 1960's until Queen was sold few years back.
 
bghorn said:
That's not that strange. Both Queen and Ontario were fully owned subsidiaries of Servotronics since late 1960's until Queen was sold few years back.
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I have often wondered whether Camillus actually made the metal handled MIL-K-18 knives for Queen/Ontario. I say that because in the 50's/60's/70's/80's, Queen never had a scout/utility pattern knife in their own line, so it would be a stretch for them to tool up to make that pattern whereas Camillus made millions of them.
 
According posts in various threads about the MIL-K-8, by Camillus second generation employee, the late Tom Williams (aka CAMCO). indicated that 1949 was the first year Camillus made them, 1962 is the rarest year and a few were made with 2006 dates and none with 2007 dates. I read somewhere that the Western version was made by Camillus, as were other companies' offerings. See "incestuous relationships" above. :D:D
 
cilohaefink said:
I have often wondered whether Camillus actually made the metal handled MIL-K-18 knives for Queen/Ontario. I say that because in the 50's/60's/70's/80's, Queen never had a scout/utility pattern knife in their own line, so it would be a stretch for them to tool up to make that pattern whereas Camillus made millions of them.
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Queen made the MIL-K-818 for Government contract in 1986. Non of my conversations with former Camillus employee's suggest that they were involved with those Queen knives. The Schrade 1982 MIL-K-818 was made for Government contract in the Camillus factory.
The WESTERN/ U.S.A. knife while not dated, (which does not comply with the MIL-K-818 specification), was made circa 1995 according to C. Michael Wiedemann.
 
As an addendum: Colonial Knife Corp was making their version of the mil-k-818 at one time. It's part of their collectable/vintage series but I'm not seeing anywhere they are still making it. I wonder, could they have made some for someone else at some point, or vice versa?

What a quagmire. LOL love it!
 
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Colonial still has that knife available, and they reference it to the old "NSN" number. http://colonialknifecorp.com/Military.htm
Colonial does sell their M724 to the Government to replace the old MC-1 knife.
We should remember that the MIL-K-818 specification was canceled in 1997

cbd97901-c3e8-48d8-976e-d586c258fc2b_zpspfdl8qim.jpg
 
Yeah, but sactroop, "MIL-K-818" sounds so much better than "general purpose pocket knife A-A-59100" and if someone asks me about the
"MIL-K", I know what they are talking about.

GP Knife?.... well, I guess we could call it the "jeep knife", with one issued in the map box of every Vehicle, Government, Passenger, Willys-design, uh GPW. I mean Jeep.:D
 
I'm thinking that MIL-K-818 already morphed into a name the same as KA-BAR did. The specification only existed from 1955 to 1997 and a lot of knives that existed before the specification and since are generally treated as such. I agree that MIL-K-818 just rolls off the tongue.:)
 
For me at least, when I read or hear MIL-K-818 (or as I sometimes say when my brain is running faster than my mouth the "MILK 18" :D) I automatically think of the all metal 4 blade jewel. That "general purpose knife" moniker makes me think of all the various models Camillus produced during WW2, not the all metal standard.

Do you know when/why the MIL-K-818 started getting the tag "DEMO KNIFE"? I have always assumed that was short for "Demolition" rather than for "Demonstration" but have never seen anything in writing explaining the term.

The 4 blade camp knife was around long before the gubmint came up with the all metal specs or the designation. I don't when the knife was initially developed, but I do know a 4 blade "BE PREPARED" shield version was the second knife ever advertised in Boy's Life magazine for Boy Scouts, in the 14th issue, March 1912 as the sales prize for a Boy Scout who sold 24 packages of Daisy Stain Remover at 10¢ @.
 
Someone may have said this already. I have not read all replys. But the fact is GEC makes most if not all of Queens pocket knives. If it's D2 blade it made by GEC
 
I was unaware Queen made GEC knives. Very interesting. Makes a lot of sense considering the two factories are right down the road from each other. Isn't Queen in Titusville?

I'm guessing "DEMO" was a slang term coined by military trainers of EOD/UDT/Infantry units, who might have used the knife to shape C4 and other plastic explosives. I wouldn't know when though. Probably during or before Vietnam? I was issued one of these in the early 90's but we never called it a demo knife. It was just "pocket knife."
 
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I doubt very much that Queen makes knives for GEC or vise versa. Need to see some proof of that.
 
I just found out recently that GEC makes the Mudbug for Smith and Sons. (I just ordered one today as a matter of fact)

Totally incestuos lot these knife companies are.
 
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