Ka Bar USMC vs. Ontario 498 and SP1

[Nutty Knife Nut]

Which one is best?

I want all 3 of these knives, but I'm leaning towards getting the 498 first because I heard it comes so ugly when its brand new and looks dated., and then it would make more sense to buy the ugly 498 first since I'm gonna be putting in hard use on it first .

also, what is the best type of sharpening stone for thoese knives?

 

[Zimbabwe]

I personally own the kabar USMC and love it, it can take a betting and hold an edge. The coating on the blade is also very smooth, and I have found it to be quite resilient. I personally use DMT Diafold sharpeners, they cut quick and give a nice edge. Also getting a strop will help greatly to remove burr and leave a crisp clean edge.

 

[Nutty Knife Nut]

Does anybody know if the 498 usually comes sharp when its brand new?

 

[marcinek]

Does anybody know if the 498 usually comes sharp when its brand new?

Just out of curiosity, if you are "...gonna be putting in hard use on..." this 1095 knife...who cares? It's gonna get dull. You are going to have to sharpen it eventually.

 

[Nutty Knife Nut]

Just out of curiosity, if you are "...gonna be putting in hard use on..." this 1095 knife...who cares? It's gonna get dull. You are going to have to sharpen it eventually.

well I think if I'm gonna spend my hard earned money on a blade that it should at least come with a half way decent edge.

 

[TwinStick]

I say, don't get either the 498 or the USMC. I have the SP2, SP8, SP10, SP17, SP47, SP Kukri & soon an SP51. They are all excellent blades for hard use. If the SP1 is as good as the ones i have, then it will serve you fine. NOTE: I do NOT throw my knives.
I say get a BK&T BK7 Combat knife. I have pounded the living snot out of mine, even after i put a choil & jimping on mine, with no issues at all. It has a full width, full & extended tang, removable handles for cleaning.

 

[Nutty Knife Nut]

I say, don't get either the 498 or the USMC. I have the SP2, SP8, SP10, SP17, SP47, SP Kukri & soon an SP51. They are all excellent blades for hard use. If the SP1 is as good as the ones i have, then it will serve you fine. NOTE: I do NOT throw my knives.
I say get a BK&T BK7 Combat knife. I have pounded the living snot out of mine, even after i put a choil & jimping on mine, with no issues at all. It has a full width, full & extended tang, removable handles for cleaning.

I was already planning on buying the BK-7 and 9,might get the BK-17 also, but I'm aiming at getting the SP-1,498 and USMC first before I buy the Beckers.

One of the only few problems I heard about the USMC and 498 is that sometimes the hand guards go loose if the stacked leather shrinks.

 

[EricV]

Loose handguards can be fixed a bunch of ways. Personally nothing beats a stacked leather handle, except maybe canvas micarta.

 

[spydie fanatic]

Does anybody know if the 498 usually comes sharp when its brand new?

I've had two ontario 498's and both were dull as hell from the factory; being the 498 is an actual issue knife, they are made fast and cheap by the lowest bidder. With this being said, they are made of the same 1095 as are the ontario sp1 and kabar. Spend a little time sharpening and its all good.

I've owned the ontario sp1/sp2 and multiple kabars, and they always come sharp from the factory; again I'd say this is probably due to being a commercial version and not gub'mnt contract made.

 

[Freddyb]

Look at it this way Ontario, has been the soul contract holder for the military for the past 50 years. Most of the stories you hear about the "ka-bar" are in reference to the Ontario 498. During the war, camillus teamed up with the military to develops the mark 2 USMC fighting knife, and united cutlery who later renamed their company "ka-bar" was only 1 of the 4 company's who manufactured the knife, with camillus being the largest manufacturer and united cutlery being second to camillus. The term "ka-bar" was term used for the USMC fighting knife before "ka-bar" was even a company. So all in all, kabar brand was only used in the military for a short period of time, and most of the "ka-bar" knives issued wren either camillus or Ontario. If you served in the military from the end of world war 2 until now, chances are you were issued the Ontario 498. Consider this, out-of all the different versions of the mark 2 USMC fighting knife, the military has stuck with the Ontario 498 FAR longer then any other maker. With the extreme testing the military does with their knives, and the fact that Ontario has held the soul contract for the U.S military for almost half a century I think it's safe to say the Ontario 498 is the best version of the mark 2 USMC fighting knife or "ka-bar". United cutlery adopted the name "ka-bar" towards the end of the world war, and have received much of the credit in doing so, but this simply is not accurate. All the stories about ka-bars from Vietnam, desert storm etc have all been in reference to the Ontario 498.

 

[Freddyb]

The case USMC fighting knife or mark 2 , is actually made by Ontario as well. Case contracted Ontario to manufacture the knife for them. Basically the company united cutlery (who later renamed themselves "ka-bar" did not develope the original mark 2 USMC fighting Knife nor was it the best version of it, they were simply 1 of the 4 manufactures of the mark 2 during the war, and it seems as though they banked off naming their company after the iconic knife. I'm not saying that "ka-bar" isn't a Greta knife company I own some of their knives, but they are credited as the original mark 2 USMC knife and this is not true. Basically Ontario, case, and ka-bar are all going to serve you just as well. But in think Ontario went a step further and made adjustments to make the knife better. Some people complain about the handle being coated, but this was to help keep the handle from dry rotting, and keep a good grip when wet. Ontario also has a thicker steel run through the handle making he tang stronger. I just go off what the military has chosen to use for the past few decades and that's the Ontario 498. If any other Version of the knife was any better then why wouldn't they use them instead ?

 

[Boru13]

Freddyb there is so many things wrong in your post I'm not sure where to begin.

I'm sure other members here will pick it apart but I'm just going to highlight on one thing...Ontario has not been the only contract holder for the past 50 years. Ontario did not have a contract to supply until 1980.

 

[Boru13]

Also this thread is over 3 years old and were not going to find out what knife the OP chose since he has been banned.

 

[marcinek]

Freddyb there is so many things wrong in your post I'm not sure where to begin.

I'm sure other members here will pick it apart but I'm just going to highlight on one thing...Ontario has not been the only contract holder for the past 50 years. Ontario did not have a contract to supply until 1980.

Yes, Freddy has come up with an "interesting" history of the Mark 2/1219C2. Most, if not all, of his posts present some version of it.

 

[Freddyb]

I was already planning on buying the BK-7 and 9,might get the BK-17 also, but I'm aiming at getting the SP-1,498 and USMC first before I buy the Beckers.

One of the only few problems I heard about the USMC and 498 is that sometimes the hand guards go loose if the stacked leather shrinks.

The Ontario 498 is definitely better then the USMC kabar... The camillus USMC knife, isn't manufactured anymore, but you can buy older ones for 100-200$ and those things are tough as hell, and they are the original kabar. The kabar brand is nice but they aren't the best by any means. People often assume the brand "kabar" made the original USMC fighting knife, when actually the first mark 5 was made by camillus, united cutlery who later changed their name to "kabar" banking on the name soldiers have the USMC fighting knife, only actually made about 25% of the knives during the war. The brand "kabar" only had about a 1-3 years contract with the U.S military, and while the kabar knife has been used for decades by the military, the kabar brand was very short lived in the military. Ontario has held the soul contract of the U.S military since the end world war 2, so chances are most of the stories you hear about ka-bars is mostly in reference to the Ontario 498, or Camillus... Only 25% of the soldiers during world war 2 has kabars made by united cutlery. United cutlery stamped the name kabar on their blades, but these knives were called ka-bar before "kabar" was even a company... So in all honesty Ontario has held the U.S military contract for the manufacturing the mark 5 for soldiers for over 5 decades now and that says something. The extreme testing out military puts these knives through obviously says the Ontario 498 has held up the best in testing otherwise they wouldn't have had Ontario as the soul manufacturer for so long. This isn't to say you won't see other brand knives such as case, and others, but alot of the stories about the ka-bar knife are in reference to the ontario 498 and camillus USMC fighting knife. People ignorantly assume because united cutlery changed their name to "kabar" that they are the original manufacture of the knife, but this is far from true, they were neither the first, or the best, and definitely not the most used by the military...

 

[Coastiekevink]

The case USMC fighting knife or mark 2 , is actually made by Ontario as well. Case contracted Ontario to manufacture the knife for them. Basically the company united cutlery (who later renamed themselves "ka-bar" did not develope the original mark 2 USMC fighting Knife nor was it the best version of it, they were simply 1 of the 4 manufactures of the mark 2 during the war, and it seems as though they banked off naming their company after the iconic knife. I'm not saying that "ka-bar" isn't a Greta knife company I own some of their knives, but they are credited as the original mark 2 USMC knife and this is not true. Basically Ontario, case, and ka-bar are all going to serve you just as well. But in think Ontario went a step further and made adjustments to make the knife better. Some people complain about the handle being coated, but this was to help keep the handle from dry rotting, and keep a good grip when wet. Ontario also has a thicker steel run through the handle making he tang stronger. I just go off what the military has chosen to use for the past few decades and that's the Ontario 498. If any other Version of the knife was any better then why wouldn't they use them instead ?

I thought it was Union Cutlery


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[Freddyb]

All of the USMC mark 5 knives are made just as good as one another, the government has strict standards that all of the USMC knives must meet so these are all great knives. Both Ontario and "kabar" are from the network area, and use the same steel, and have adopted alot not the same forging techniques... The main difference with the width of the blade and the style of the handle. The Ontario 498 coats it's handles with like a black tar, making the leather stronger and protecting it from dry-rot which was a huge problem with many of the ka-bars during the war. This Is why during the Vietnam war, in the wet jungle the Ontario 498 was the Ka-bar used by the soldiers, because they didn't have to worry about the leather bontbheir knives deteriorating, form dry-rot due to the black coating on the handle.. The onatrio 498 is cheaper and better made then the USMC mark 5 "kabar" (the company) made, so why is the "ka bar" brand so much more money lol ? Because people see the name kabar and automatically assume it's the best lol... kabar makes great knives, but their USMC fighting knife isn't as good as the Ontario 498, which can be bought for cheaper... People talk about the Ontario 498 being ugly, lol wth, if you plan on using your knife why are worried about how pretty it is lol... The Ontario may not look as appealing but I buy a knife because it will last, and hold up against the abuse i put it through, it definitely isn't because it's pretty lol...

 

[JamesofArc]

Look at it this way Ontario, has been the soul contract holder for the military for the past 50 years. Most of the stories you hear about the "ka-bar" are in reference to the Ontario 498. During the war, camillus teamed up with the military to develops the mark 2 USMC fighting knife, and united cutlery who later renamed their company "ka-bar" was only 1 of the 4 company's who manufactured the knife, with camillus being the largest manufacturer and united cutlery being second to camillus. The term "ka-bar" was term used for the USMC fighting knife before "ka-bar" was even a company. So all in all, kabar brand was only used in the military for a short period of time, and most of the "ka-bar" knives issued wren either camillus or Ontario. If you served in the military from the end of world war 2 until now, chances are you were issued the Ontario 498. Consider this, out-of all the different versions of the mark 2 USMC fighting knife, the military has stuck with the Ontario 498 FAR longer then any other maker. With the extreme testing the military does with their knives, and the fact that Ontario has held the soul contract for the U.S military for almost half a century I think it's safe to say the Ontario 498 is the best version of the mark 2 USMC fighting knife or "ka-bar". United cutlery adopted the name "ka-bar" towards the end of the world war, and have received much of the credit in doing so, but this simply is not accurate. All the stories about ka-bars from Vietnam, desert storm etc have all been in reference to the Ontario 498.

The case USMC fighting knife or mark 2 , is actually made by Ontario as well. Case contracted Ontario to manufacture the knife for them. Basically the company united cutlery (who later renamed themselves "ka-bar" did not develope the original mark 2 USMC fighting Knife nor was it the best version of it, they were simply 1 of the 4 manufactures of the mark 2 during the war, and it seems as though they banked off naming their company after the iconic knife. I'm not saying that "ka-bar" isn't a Greta knife company I own some of their knives, but they are credited as the original mark 2 USMC knife and this is not true. Basically Ontario, case, and ka-bar are all going to serve you just as well. But in think Ontario went a step further and made adjustments to make the knife better. Some people complain about the handle being coated, but this was to help keep the handle from dry rotting, and keep a good grip when wet. Ontario also has a thicker steel run through the handle making he tang stronger. I just go off what the military has chosen to use for the past few decades and that's the Ontario 498. If any other Version of the knife was any better then why wouldn't they use them instead ?

 

[Freddyb]

You thought what was union cutlery ? Union cutlery was one not the 4 manufacturers who picked up the orders camillus couldn't fill. United cutlery was the second biggest manufacturer during the war after Camillus, but they only manufactured like 20% of the knives if that, While camillus manufactured like 60-70%. The soldiers had called the USMC mark 5 fighting knife "ka-bar" and united cutlery later changed their companies name to "kabar" banking on the name of the USMC fighting knife... The company "kabar" now makers their whole company around the name, and even takes credit for a knife they only played a small part in manufacturing for the U.S military... United cutlery, only manufactured knives for the military for maybe 2-3 years, And they only made about 20% of the knives during that time lol... Camillus and Ontario are/we're the two main manufactures of the USMC mark 5 for the U.S military... Ontario has been the only knife company to have a contract with the U.S military to produce the USMC mark 5 fighting knife (the Ontario 498) for the past 5 decades... All the ka-bars issued to the military during the Vietnam war were the Ontario 498... The military had issues in the past with other ka-bar brands leather handles dry rotting but the Ontario 498 has a black tar like coating on the leather preventing weathering and dry rotting which was important over in Vietnam in the wet jungle... consider this, with all the testing our governments military puts these knives through, the Ontario 498 must be doing something right considering they have been the soul contractor of the U.S military for so long now... The ka-bar or USMC knife made by united cutlery (who later changed the companies name to kabar) were short lived in the military, and they weren't even the main manufacturer at the time... I mean Case designed the original mark 5, camillus was the original maufacturer and the largest manufacturer in early military history, and Ontario is the largest manufacturer of the USMC mark 5 "ka-bar" in the history of military with them holding the soul U.S military contract for over 5 decades now... I mean all these manufacturers have made the same design knife, and all have met the military's specifications and or standards as far as quality and durability,no guess some have just done a better job in testing then others..

 

[19-3ben]

The Ontario 498 is definitely better then the USMC kabar... The camillus USMC knife, isn't manufactured anymore, but you can buy older ones for 100-200$ and those things are tough as hell, and they are the original kabar. The kabar brand is nice but they aren't the best by any means. People often assume the brand "kabar" made the original USMC fighting knife, when actually the first mark 5 was made by camillus, united cutlery who later changed their name to "kabar" banking on the name soldiers have the USMC fighting knife, only actually made about 25% of the knives during the war. The brand "kabar" only had about a 1-3 years contract with the U.S military, and while the kabar knife has been used for decades by the military, the kabar brand was very short lived in the military. Ontario has held the soul contract of the U.S military since the end world war 2, so chances are most of the stories you hear about ka-bars is mostly in reference to the Ontario 498, or Camillus... Only 25% of the soldiers during world war 2 has kabars made by united cutlery. United cutlery stamped the name kabar on their blades, but these knives were called ka-bar before "kabar" was even a company... So in all honesty Ontario has held the U.S military contract for the manufacturing the mark 5 for soldiers for over 5 decades now and that says something. The extreme testing out military puts these knives through obviously says the Ontario 498 has held up the best in testing otherwise they wouldn't have had Ontario as the soul manufacturer for so long. This isn't to say you won't see other brand knives such as case, and others, but alot of the stories about the ka-bar knife are in reference to the ontario 498 and camillus USMC fighting knife. People ignorantly assume because united cutlery changed their name to "kabar" that they are the original manufacture of the knife, but this is far from true, they were neither the first, or the best, and definitely not the most used by the military...

Wait a minute. Putting aside for a moment, the question of whether you're remotely accurate, let's just look at this for a second. Back in February you reopened a 4 year old thread, to provide information in response to a question that was no longer relevant. Now today, 4 months later you reply to bring back the same zombie thread?

I mean, I can appreciate some good trolling. But that takes some real dedication. This is a troll who's in it for the long game.