Kabar and Ontario question

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fatcat55

Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
349
First, is the KaBar Mk l full tang?

Next, which is better-Kabar Mk l or the smaller version of the Kabar F/U- for general woodswalking and camping etc.

Third and final-How do the above knives compare to the Ontario Spec 2 Air Force Survival(kraton not leather handle version)?

I have a Kabar Dozier folder which I think is a great knife but also have the Ontario RAT-1 which I also have come to respect so I am interested in fixed blades by both manufacturers.

Thanks for any all feedback.
 
The MK1 is full tang just like the USMC and F/U knives. Same tang with a smaller blade means that it should be relatively stronger than it is on the USMC.

Most people will say that the MK1 is beter than the small F/U for two reasons. First is that the handle is much more comfortable to most people (larger, and without the top guard). Second, the blade is a FFG, so it is "slicier" and will handle most food prep and bushcraft chores better than the small F/U with its saber grind.

Sadly, I have no experience with the Ontario that you are talking about. As a general rule though, it seems that most people around BF seem to respect Kabars HT better than Ontarios HT in their fixed blades.

Both of those folders are awesome though :).

Hope that helps some :D.
 
What ocnlogan said, also, the Spec Op series of knvies were designed in large part, by Paul Tsujimoto, or as we like to call him, Toooj. He now works for Kabar, and is a master of the heat treat, that puts the Kabar 1095CV head and shoulders above Ontario stuff, IMO.

You're gonna love that MKI, I promise, and like Logan said, it just fits better in most hands.

Moose
 
The Heat Treat on my 3 Ontario machetes is Dang good!! Have not tested out my Ontario F/U yet because it needs a handle (bought someones project knife). The only thing I can say about the F/U is that the edge grinds are not very even or sharp. Looks like the edge was roughed out but not finished. The Ontario USGI machete is my favorite 18" Machete. Can't comment on the Spec-Plus line because I don't have any. I like some of the designs though so maybe one day, but not now.
 
Ontario is a huge company, meaning, they make lots of different knives. The Old Hickory and machetes have a predictable HT, I own 4 of their machetes and a whole set of the Old Hickory knives, and all of them are the same. Never heard of any complaints on those.
The HT issues I've had, and heard of, are from the RAT and RD series. Two of my RD knives in 5160 just seem way too soft, I can't get a good edge and they don't keep what I give them, I don't know what went wrong, or if they are just made this way on purpose. At the same time, my RD Hawk in 1075 is great, I can get a better edge on it than the other knives, of the RD series.
My Spec Plus, Survival machete is great. It came sharp, even grind, and I've used it a bit, and it kept it's edge. I've read that the guy that is over the new Generation 2 stuff has made improvments in the process and HT from before. I can't find the link to that article, but it does exist. I don't own any from that line, but maybe someone else here does?

I would have faith in any Ka-Bar product. Even the Taiwan made Cutlass machete is made well, came sharp, even grinds, and the HT is a bit on the softer side, but it's supposed to be. I've beat the crap out of mine, and it smiles for more. Those thinner tangs are fine, unless you're just plain abusive and try to break them.
 
I too have an Ontario machete,the 12 inch economy model . I love it. I have gotten it surprisingly sharp. From various posts on different forums there does seem to be mixed reviews on the fit and finish, edge and sharpness of the Ontario products

Thanks for the information.
 
me? i wouldn't buy anything from ontario, not when the Toooj master is working for KaBar and has the heat treat down solid.

plus other reasons i won't bore you with here. karma is everything.

i only have old knives from them, and they're good. the new stuff? i cannot comment on that knifewise.
 
I think Ontario has some personal problems.

Recently ordered a 18 inch machete, grinding on blade was uneven. Also recently purchased a "Field Knife" and "Cabbage Knife." The blades are actually quite good, but the handles were atrocious. If I blindfolded my 3 year old daughter, then spun her around in circles, then asked her to put some handles on a knife she would have done a better job. But I only paid like $10 a piece for those, so what do you expect?
 
I agree with Foxx, the Machetes are good (as I said earlier) and so are the Old Hickory line of knives. Most or all of those lines need new edges and the Old Hickory's need their handles rounded. Once that's done they are Great! I even turned a 3" Pairing knife I got for ~$5 a few years ago into a 2" Sheeps foot blade for cutting leather. It does a dang good job.

Have heard good things about the Rat-1 folder.
 
1.Yes, very much full tang
2. The Mk1. FFG is better than sabre grind for this size knife.
3. IMO all Ka-Bar products are better than ontario, better fit and finish, heat treats, materials, customer service, and out of box edge.
 
All,

Even though I'm at KA-BAR now, I still like Ontario and am on friendly terms with them. I hear that Dan Maragni is working with them again, so their heat treat is in good hands. He has also designed the latest versions of the Spec Plus line.
Their products are nothing fancy but they are well built and cost effective. KA-BAR and Ontario are at different price points but both offer solid value.
Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
Thanks for the response. I have only been "really" interested in knives for about two years but during that time have found some very good quality inexpensive knives based on the recommendations and opinions on this forum.

As a result, I have the Ontario RAT 1 and 12 inch machete that I really like but also have the Kabar Dozier folder that ranks just as high.

Throw in Buck,Byrd,Condor,Tramontina, Marble and yes, even Cold Steel and I think I have some pretty decent cutlery and not a one over $30.00!

I haven't made a buying decision yet(still trying to justify the need) but having first hand feedback from someone involved with the development and production of a brand is really outstanding.

Thanks so much for the input and thanks to all who have responded with your experience and advice.

If and when I buy, I will post the results.

Thanks again to everyone who took time to respond.
 
Theres nothing wrong with Ontario knives except fanboyism. They had a falling out with Jeff Randall and it was the worst thing that ever happened to their reputation, I only know a bit about their products but they might be a bunch of assholes to work with, sounds like other people know more about that than me. I have a RAT 5 and have ZERO problems with it, Ive spoken to a few people with RAT's that love em, the RTAK II is another story. I dont think you can go wrong with any decision you make, although the sheath is better on the Kabars you listed more so than the Ontario which for me is a deal breaker.
 
I help support both Ka-Bar & Ontario. I own many from each & love them all. Both have blades that are Made In America, are high quality, good HT, great price point & are about an hour or so away from me. But this Ka-Bar land, soooo---buy a Ka-Bar.
 
I've had several of the Spec Plus models (none of the ones in 5160) and I can say without a doubt that my Kabar's in 1095CV take a better edge and hold it longer than any of the Spec Plus models in plain 1095. The CV makes a difference, and Kabar's HT is without peer, IMO.
 
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