Kabar vs. Sykes-Fairbairn

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Alberta Ed

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Came across this interesting article on the Fairbairn-Sykes commando dagger and the Kabar all-purpose fighting knife. Enjoy!

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The KA-BAR and the Fairbairn-Sykes: two fighting children of different philosophies | HROARR

Facebook Google+ LinkedIn Tumblr The knife is a silent and deadly weapon that is easily concealed and against which, in the hands of an expert, there is no sure defence, except firearms or running like hell. -From the declassified Special Operations Executive Syllabus When it comes to modern...
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Fascinating article that appears to be well researched and is certainly well written. Worth the few minutes it takes to read.

Thanks for posting!
 
Good article. However..
"Famous British Lt. Col. W.E. Fairbairn joined the British Marines at the age of 15, using faked documents stating that he was of legal age, i.e. 18. He was deployed to serve in Japanese-occupied Korea already in 1903, then at the real age of 18. Here he spent much of his time practicing various forms of martial arts with Japanese and Korean fighters, practiced drilling with the Royal Marines and fighting Japanese Army troops with bayonet."

This last part makes no sense. England and Japan were allies 1902-1927 under the Anglo-Japanese Alliance.
Perhaps he was training wjth Japanese troops, but not fighting them. Or maybe there is something else but as it stands
it's somewhat misleading. The US and UK supported Japan's annexation of Korea in 1910.
 
KenHash said:
Good article. However..
"Famous British Lt. Col. W.E. Fairbairn joined the British Marines at the age of 15, using faked documents stating that he was of legal age, i.e. 18. He was deployed to serve in Japanese-occupied Korea already in 1903, then at the real age of 18. Here he spent much of his time practicing various forms of martial arts with Japanese and Korean fighters, practiced drilling with the Royal Marines and fighting Japanese Army troops with bayonet."

This last part makes no sense. England and Japan were allies 1902-1927 under the Anglo-Japanese Alliance.
Perhaps he was training wjth Japanese troops, but not fighting them. Or maybe there is something else but as it stands
it's somewhat misleading. The US and UK supported Japan's annexation of Korea in 1910.
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I read that as fighting with them as part of training, not as part of a conflict.
 
As an observation, not in any way a judgement:

I think the Marine's "Fighting-Utility" knife often referred to as the Ka-Bar, could be characterized as a short Bowe knife, while the Faiburn-Sykes, often referred to as the Commando Dagger, could be characterized as a short rapier.

Neither descriptor is really accurate of course, just my feet-by-the-fire random thoughts.
 
bikerector said:
I read that as fighting with them as part of training, not as part of a conflict.
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Yes one could certainly read it that way.
But following "drilling with Royal Marines" I think that interpretation, while it may have beem intended, is vague at best.
 
KenHash said:
Good article. However..
"Famous British Lt. Col. W.E. Fairbairn joined the British Marines at the age of 15, using faked documents stating that he was of legal age, i.e. 18. He was deployed to serve in Japanese-occupied Korea already in 1903, then at the real age of 18. Here he spent much of his time practicing various forms of martial arts with Japanese and Korean fighters, practiced drilling with the Royal Marines and fighting Japanese Army troops with bayonet."

This last part makes no sense. England and Japan were allies 1902-1927 under the Anglo-Japanese Alliance.
Perhaps he was training wjth Japanese troops, but not fighting them. Or maybe there is something else but as it stands
it's somewhat misleading. The US and UK supported Japan's annexation of Korea in 1910.
Click to expand...
Yes, Fairbairn did train with Japanese martial arts experts, not against them. There's a fascinating chapter on Sykes and Fairbairn in Churchill's Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare by Giles Milton, another excellent read. Erik Sykes was known to his friends as "Bill", after the shady character in Dickens. Fairbairn was known as "Shanghai Buster" and "Delicate Dan" to his friends, but referred to himself as Mister Murder-Made-Easy. His principal interest, aside from gutter fighting, was goldfish -- he had more than100,000 in total, which he kept in specially constructed pools. The two published several books, which you can find on-line: Shooting to Live; All-in Fighting; Get Tough and Self-Defense for Women and Girls.
 
Alberta Ed said:
Came across this interesting article .... Enjoy!
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In view of some recent discussions here, I found this interesting:

"The knife came in many different versions; fully black, half-black, plain steel and also with a nickel-plated hilt. The latter followed Fairbairn’s philosophy of; I believe that a knife should be bright and highly polished for the reason that 20% of the fight is lost by not striking awe in the mind of the victim that a flashing knife gives."

:)
 
TC said:
In view of some recent discussions here, I found this interesting:

"The knife came in many different versions; fully black, half-black, plain steel and also with a nickel-plated hilt. The latter followed Fairbairn’s philosophy of; I believe that a knife should be bright and highly polished for the reason that 20% of the fight is lost by not striking awe in the mind of the victim that a flashing knife gives."

:)
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A very astute and correct assesment of any weapon's effectiveness as a deterrent. A big shiny blade, a large firearm, anything highly visibe and recognizable that strikes home the weapon's threat potential and gives the adversary pause to reconsider their actions. Unfortunately it only works on rational people though. Doubt it would work on irrational people, and obviously wild animals.
But that 20% quantification from a qualified expert is really interesting.
 
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I'd take a USMC fighting knife over a FS every day unless I was going to a knife sale.
 
TC said:
In view of some recent discussions here, I found this interesting:

"The knife came in many different versions; fully black, half-black, plain steel and also with a nickel-plated hilt. The latter followed Fairbairn’s philosophy of; I believe that a knife should be bright and highly polished for the reason that 20% of the fight is lost by not striking awe in the mind of the victim that a flashing knife gives."

:)
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I've heard more than once that the only sure way to win a knife fight is not to be in a knife fight!
 
I would love either one but if I had my choice of originals I would pick a pattern one FS every time. They were awarded on completion of training the way I understand it they were not issued.
 
The dagger is a very specific tool. The US Ka-Bar is an outstanding multi purpose tool/weapon.

I think highly of a good dagger, For its stabbing ability. But, a Ka-bar is a much better slasher.

I would take either as a self defense weapon.

Both were used, to great effect, by persons trained, with either style. Though, not absolutely interchangeable.

There’s also the “Honor Weapon” component of a good dagger that adds to its pride of ownership and, confidence in its ability.
 
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