Kailash 'Officer's' Pensioner

[Rowan McDirk]

I recently received my customized Kailash Pensioner Kukri.

The blade is based on the historical JD Pensioner kukri.

The handle and engravings on this historical Officer’s kukri.

Dia Chirra Officers Kukri in Knives

A good quality example of an early 20thC Dia Chirra kukri, likely produced for an officer of the Nepalese army. 11.5 inch wide bellied dia chirra blade with spine engraving. 15 inches overall. The blade covered in old grease which has preserved a large proportion of the original finish. Some...

www.militariazone.com

I ordered a large Karda, byknife with a 4”/10 cm blade and 3”/7,5 cm handle.
Also a fish shaped Chakmak/fire- and sharpening steel based on this example

I have not been able to use the blades a lot so the complete review will have to wait.

My first impressions:

Kailash customer service is more than outstanding. The replies are fast.
It is a pleasure to be kept up to date from Kailash operations with pictures and explanations of the different steps of their process.
The complete set is gorgeous. It has a luxurious look and feel.
The blades are 5160 spring steel, the handle buffalo horn, the bolster, handle and pommel brass.
The Kukri's balance is excellent, just as the performance edge. It chops deep without effort and moves very fast.
When I have the time and the weather is right, I’ll do a chopping comparison with my Kailash Muntiny.


The lack of the Harhari (handle rings) makes it very comfortable to hold and chop with. The polished handle does not prevent sliding forward when stabbing. Which was expected.

The handles that have Harhari prevent sliding down the handle, are used as a tiny subhilt between middle and ring finger. But the handle rings on the back of the handle might irritate the hand when chopping without gloves.
A perfect compromise wouldd be rings on the front of the handle but a rounded back of the handle.

The handle circumference is quite large for a kukri. For my hand (size 9 gloves) the middle finger can just not touch the heel of my hand. A slightly smaller circumference would have been perfect for my hand. Perhaps a detail to mention with my next order, but this is nitpicking.
Nevertheless it feels fantastic in my hand.

The sturdy engraved pommel plate (and the horn handle) balances the kukri a bit more than the original version. The polished horn is just stunning. The combination with the brass is a perfect one.

The Karda, byknife is ground very thin and the size makes it a great companion for the kukri and a fine fieldknife. The convex grind cuts nice feathers for making fire.

I still have to test the Chakmak with flint to make fire.

I’ll let the pictures speak for themselves.

Next are the update pictures I received from Kailash.
I ordered a Pensioner together with a friend who got a wooden handle Pensioner.
The blades are exactly the same dimensions. Which is unusual for completely handmade kukri. It speaks for the professional workmanship of the Kailash craftsman. Quite impressive.
The wooden handled Pensioner has the point of balance of bit further on the blade because of the lighter wooden handle and a thinner pommel plate. It feels a bit less balanced but chops wit more authority.

 

[Kailash Blades]

Thanks a bunch for sharing!
Great to hear you think we've nailed it with these blades. I think the daps are looking great- crisp, clean and not too thick but still solid. I've passed on the kind words to the team

The team certainly do favour a thicker, rounder handle. We're currently looking into controlling the circumference of certain blades based on chosen handle size- right now it only determines length. Nothing huge just a few mm here and there to nudge things towards a more dialled in fit. In the interim we can absolutely do custom circumferences based on use measurements.

A mutiny chopping comparison would be amazing! I think they're pretty similar blades. It's a heft vs length thing but that a 14" mutiny will probably outchop a 13" pensioner.
Looking forward to further feedback

Take care,
Andrew and the team at Kailash

 

[Bill_Melater]

That is a beautiful blade! The team definitely does some very fine work!

Seeing this makes me pretty glad I put in for a Pensioner but surely nothing as fancy. Going to try out the micarta on this one and since I'm trying to add a karda and chakmak (just waiting on the extra invoice, I think), it's really good to see what those come out like, even for the sheath. I'll stay tuned for that chopping comparison.

I can see how a larger diameter handle would be nice. I only have a siru and a Mk1 at the moment and both feel pretty good despite being polar opposites so, I can't say I have a real preference. I will say that I am shocked how much I like the Mk1 handle despite how massive it is. Took a moment to get used to though. If I had to compare, I'd say the slimmer handle takes less work to hold onto but the larger handle is a bit more ergonomic so it sort of balances out.

 

[Kailash Blades]

Hey there Bill- I think you've micarta wrap on a pensioner. There's something about it that pairs well with more modern options. I think there's something sort of modern looking about the fuller, angular spine or profile.
Re: Karda and chakmak invoice it's in the order notes but the team haven't sent through to me to invoice out yet. They typically do this as the blades are distributed amongst the smiths and I think for the sake of consistency I'll let them do it as usual

 

[Bill_Melater]

Hey there Bill- I think you've micarta wrap on a pensioner. There's something about it that pairs well with more modern options. I think there's something sort of modern looking about the fuller, angular spine or profile.
Re: Karda and chakmak invoice it's in the order notes but the team haven't sent through to me to invoice out yet. They typically do this as the blades are distributed amongst the smiths and I think for the sake of consistency I'll let them do it as usual

Oh, I'm not too worried about it. I made some changes to my previous order and the team handled it without any issues.

I usually prefer a wood handle but I want to give the micarta a try and I'm hoping the Pensioner will be that long sought after "middle ground" to fit a carry anywhere use for me.

General question though: Does the chakmak come in that flat form as standard or with a handle like the karda? I see that some makers do one or the other, sometimes it seems to depend on the blade. I'm guessing either way is traditional. Also, do the cross cuts serve a purpose?

 

[Rowan McDirk]

Further impressions.

The traditional Dap sheaths are thin. About as thin as the Kailash leather sheaths.
Thin yet sturdy.

Here compared to the leather Kailash Mutiny sheath.

Here compared to a 20th century MKIII sheath

Comparison of three Kailash kukri, two Pensioners and a Mutiny.

Weight of the blades, all have the performance grind:

‘Officer’s’ Pensioner 681 grams
Rosewood Pensioner 585 grams
Rosewood Mutiny 514 grams

Balance point of the blades:

Tip, don’t try to balance the flat kukri on your finger. Because of the shape and weight distribution the kukri will turn edge down.

‘Officer’s’ Pensioner 5,5 cm from bolster
Rosewood Pensioner 8,5 cm from bolster
Rosewood Mutiny 12 cm from bolster

The horn and brass of the ‘Officer’s’ kukri move the balance point closer to the handle.

Chopping comparison:

Thirty cuts each on a marked spot about 8 cm wide.
Dry pinewood.
The Mutiny cuts more precise but less deep.
The Rosewood Pensioner seems to cut a bit deeper than the ‘Officer’s’ due to the slightly more forward balance point.

Chopped some more, total 60 chops with the Pensioners and 70 chops with the Mutiny.

I tried to throw sparks with the Chakmak but it did not work, too soft to throw sparks with silex/flint?

 

[Kailash Blades]

Awesome stuff! love the visual POB comparsions.
Surprised to see that the mutiny lost out in the comparisons. I've felt that POB is a good indicator of chopping performance, moreso than moderate weight differences. All performance ground? Where were you striking with the mutiny?
Edit: I see Silex is french for flint- cool! We haven't heard of these issues so far but perhaps it's just that we don't have many customers trying to start fires this way. Do you have an idea of the kind of rockwell hardnesses that usually work well for you? I can have a look into this and see if we can cook up an alternative heat treat for such applications or maybe get a small stock of higher carbon steel if necessary.

 

[Rowan McDirk]

The Mutiny also has a performance grind, just as the Pensioners. (I'll add this in the previous post)
I chop with the middle of the belly.
Perhaps the Mutiny will outchop the Pensioners with green wood?

Silex is flint, English isn't my native language and I forgot to translate. (I'll also add it in the previous post)
I have no idea of the hardness needed. As far as I know it's carbon steel hardened and not tempered.
Mostly files are used, carbon steel high in carbon. Perhaps 5160 is not suited to use for flint and steel?

 

[Kailash Blades]

Could be a green wood vs hardwood thing. Usually thinner, leaner grinds do better in hardwood but maybe there's some kind of wedging/chipping situation on the go here also. 70g can make a big difference but an additional 3.5cm of pob is pretty significant. You're trying to do similar effort levels on each swing? How hard is the effort? Medium? or Max?

After a bit of research the hardness dynamic at play here is that you want the steel to be very hard so that it has a lot of internal stress and strain to release violently to make big sparks when struck. But you don't want it so hard that it's too difficult to actually scratch and gouge small bits off it.
Online reports on 5160 as a flint striker material is mixed. Some claim that it's common and works well, others claim it is too soft and also that the chromium reduces the sparking (rapid oxidation) ability. For what it's worth KSN suggests that the chromium in 5160 is significant enough to affect corrosion resistance (chromium remains that isn't tied up in carbides due to low carbon content vs 52100) so this is plausible. I've seen a few people saying simple steels with 0.7% carbon or higher are required which would rule 5160 out. I think what's likely here is that people have good experience with "A Spring Steel" and then suggest that 5160 is good as it is "The Spring Steel." In reality lots of springs are actually 1070-1085 which have higher carbon, higher max hardness and no chromium to muck things up.

Our chakmak are 5160 so there's not much we can do to get around this aside from leave them untempered to try and bump the hardness. In the past we've done this and while we can't say if it helped flint striking or not, it definitely made them more brittle and fragile when dropped.
Take care,
Andrew and the team at Kailash

 

[bigeard09]

Further impressions.

The traditional Dap sheaths are thin. About as thin as the Kailash leather sheaths.
Thin yet sturdy.

Here compared to the leather Kailash Mutiny sheath.

Here compared to a 20th century MKIII sheath

Comparison of three Kailash kukri, two Pensioners and a Mutiny.

Weight of the blades, all have the performance grind:

‘Officer’s’ Pensioner 681 grams
Rosewood Pensioner 585 grams
Rosewood Mutiny 514 grams

Balance point of the blades:

Tip, don’t try to balance the flat kukri on your finger. Because of the shape and weight distribution the kukri will turn edge down.

‘Officer’s’ Pensioner 5,5 cm from bolster
Rosewood Pensioner 8,5 cm from bolster
Rosewood Mutiny 12 cm from bolster

The horn and brass of the ‘Officer’s’ kukri move the balance point closer to the handle.

Chopping comparison:

Thirty cuts each on a marked spot about 8 cm wide.
Dry pinewood.
The Mutiny cuts more precise but less deep.
The Rosewood Pensioner seems to cut a bit deeper than the ‘Officer’s’ due to the slightly more forward balance point.

Chopped some more, total 60 chops with the Pensioners and 70 chops with the Mutiny.

I tried to throw sparks with the Chakmak but it did not work, too soft to throw sparks with silex/flint?

You mentioned the Kailash traditional Dap being thin but sturdy , I would agree , I do prefer them thinner in construction ( same as my Kailash MSI Khukuri traditional dap ) which is covered in brown salyani leather with traditional retaining potuka buttons , it is thinner than other makes but at the same time sturdy .

 

[Kailash Blades]

We've been trying over the last few years to slim down our traditional daps. in the 19th century and early 20th century sheaths were a lot thinner and were also at times made from harder woods. They sit nicer against the body, protrude less and also have a pretty elegant look. The majority of sheaths made these days and in the last 20th century are much fatter and more convex on the sides. I think this was likely moved to for durability/stiffness reasons, however we've not been notified of any of our daps failing in a way that this beefiness would have helped with. They're also made with a very soft and light wood which perhaps reinforces the thicker style- the stiffness feels more necessary and the added weight is less noticeable. I think that ease of carving from this wood could be a big factor here also.

 

[Bill_Melater]

I've been wondering about this lately. I wonder if people expect(ed) to go through multiple sheaths almost seeing it as a wear part?

Side question: is the Khukuri, Karda and Chakmak combo more common in Nepal or is it more optional? Personally, I like the idea from a "walk out with nothing else" perspective but didn't know if it was more of a "tourist" thing.

 

[Kailash Blades]

Karda and chakmak are most common on blades coming from houses these days, where it is generally assumed to be on the blade. Its significantly less common historically- especially when compared to tinder pouches and other accessories that were on sheaths. In Nepal these days I would say it's halfway between the two. Many villager blades choose to do without and are sharpened with riverstones or taken back to the village smith for a touchup. Large ceremonial khukuris (goat choppers) are less likely to have them, as are small ceremonial khukuris (birthday cake cutters, small dress blades).

I think that a sheath or even a handle lasting an lifetime would not be an expectation of khukuris historically. Yes, there are certainly blades that have been passed down and have handles and sheaths in good condition, however these blades were likely cared for well, used infrequently or even spent most of their lives in overseas collections. Modern western consumer mindsets associate quality with durability and longevity, however in historical Nepal (and similar areas) it was easy access to a local smith or sheathmaker. Wood, horn and leather were quite abundant. Rehandling a hidden tang blade is a surprisingly quick and easy job, plus smiths and sheathmakers were very, very poorly paid in the past so such labour would be financially accessible to many.

Take care,
Andrew and the team at Kailash

 

[Rowan McDirk]

Could be a green wood vs hardwood thing. Usually thinner, leaner grinds do better in hardwood but maybe there's some kind of wedging/chipping situation on the go here also. 70g can make a big difference but an additional 3.5cm of pob is pretty significant. You're trying to do similar effort levels on each swing? How hard is the effort? Medium? or Max?

After a bit of research the hardness dynamic at play here is that you want the steel to be very hard so that it has a lot of internal stress and strain to release violently to make big sparks when struck. But you don't want it so hard that it's too difficult to actually scratch and gouge small bits off it.
Online reports on 5160 as a flint striker material is mixed. Some claim that it's common and works well, others claim it is too soft and also that the chromium reduces the sparking (rapid oxidation) ability. For what it's worth KSN suggests that the chromium in 5160 is significant enough to affect corrosion resistance (chromium remains that isn't tied up in carbides due to low carbon content vs 52100) so this is plausible. I've seen a few people saying simple steels with 0.7% carbon or higher are required which would rule 5160 out. I think what's likely here is that people have good experience with "A Spring Steel" and then suggest that 5160 is good as it is "The Spring Steel." In reality lots of springs are actually 1070-1085 which have higher carbon, higher max hardness and no chromium to muck things up.

Our chakmak are 5160 so there's not much we can do to get around this aside from leave them untempered to try and bump the hardness. In the past we've done this and while we can't say if it helped flint striking or not, it definitely made them more brittle and fragile when dropped.
Take care,
Andrew and the team at Kailash

The properties of different kinds of steel are quite interesting. I had no idea it would have that much difference in use.

The Chakmak might not perform as a flint striker, it works flawlessly to sharpen/steel the edge.

I trust Andrew's experience and thought about which variable I must have ignored.
I try to use the weight of the kukri to chop, medium effort.
The Pensioner had an edge fresh from Kailash, the Mutiny didn't.
I sharpened the wood handled Mutiny and Pensioner and chopped some more.
I'll make a new topic since I didn't include the horn handled Pensioner.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/pensioner-and-mutiny-chopping-comparison.1997585/

 

[bigeard09]

I've been wondering about this lately. I wonder if people expect(ed) to go through multiple sheaths almost seeing it as a wear part?

Side question: is the Khukuri, Karda and Chakmak combo more common in Nepal or is it more optional? Personally, I like the idea from a "walk out with nothing else" perspective but didn't know if it was more of a "tourist" thing.

I also think Bill that for all many people do like to wear a khukuri as a belt carry ( but this can be openly illegal depending which country you happen to be in ) , there are good reasons to just carry it in a back pack or on some type of rig attached to a pack , accessible but not restricting movement. at present I am awaiting a 12" sirupate in a western sheath with attachments for a baldrick carry rig .

 

[Kailash Blades]

...The Chakmak might not perform as a flint striker, it works flawlessly to sharpen/steel the edge...

Good to hear it still burnishes well! I was worried that the chakmak may have been a little soft for sharpening also based on your feedback

 

[Rowan McDirk]

Bottle cutting video:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/kailash-blades-bottle-cutting.2004299/

 

[Kailash Blades]

Bottle cutting video:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/kailash-blades-bottle-cutting.2004299/

Damn that's some pretty good cutting! Particularly impressed with the bottle stab, I find that the dropped tip, canted handle and relatively broad tip can make it quite tricky.