Kalamazoo 1x42 or Craftsman 2x42 -OR- Other?

worldwood

worldwood

Joined
Sep 30, 2012
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I am trying to decide which piece of equipment to buy. I dont have very much room so I am looking for "preferably" 1 tool for multiple jobs.

I will be using it to sharpen knives, But I also want to be able to shape wooden, and micarta handle scales regularly without burning out the motor, As well as possibly a little grinding on knives.

Id like to keep it at a max of $300 dollars if possible as well. But Im not looking for whats the "cheapest" in my price range, so if it cost a little more id rather save for it than go with something noticeably less useful... I want something that will work for a good long time and be able to handle multiple different task.

So what do you guys think would be the best "tool" for these jobs? Any explanation why one is better than the other would be appreciated as well!

Thanks guys

WW
 
I don't have the Craftsman, but I DO have the Kalamazoo, and I can't speak highly enough of it. Neither of them is really OPTIMAL for knife making, just too small, but for handle work and reshaping? Superb. You don't have a chance in hell of burning out the big TEFC Baldor motor on the Kalamazoo, that thing will run forever, and by nature of being a TEFC, you don't have to worry about metal / micarta dust getting into the motor itself and causing trouble. Keep an eye on Enco, sign up for their email flier, and wait for one of their 20% off plus free shipping sales, they usually have a couple of those a year. With one of those sales, you can get one for well under $200, leaving you a hundred bucks for a hella awesome pile of belts.

It's also well worth your while to try sharpening on it, the Kalamazoo is a superb sharpening machine with the right belts!
 
Thank you very much for the info!!

I signed up for the newsletter as well.

I dont really plan to make knives. Mostly just want to sharpen mine, and be able to shape handles. I might want to play around re-shaping a few blades, but im not needing a machine capable of turning out knives from scratch or anything.
 
Then the Kalamazoo is damn near IDEAL for your purposes, I think. It's my primary sharpening machine, and I use it for general metal and wood shaping in the shop as well. Invest in some good belts, the Norton Blaze ceramic are excellent for course grits, and I like the Trizact belts for fine work. Good leather stropping belts are a must, either that or linen belts from Klingspor. Abrasive belts up to 400 grit, then a few passes on a linen belt rubbed with green buffing compound gives a working edge that's hard to believe, and it goes on FAST!
 
My vote goes to the 2 x 42 machine. I sculpt handles, sharpen and make knives on my 2 72" machines and having a 2" wide belt for handle sculpting makes life a lot easier, you can run a 1" belt on a 2" pulley if you desire?

If the craftsman burns out you an take it back for a new one as long as you haven't modified the machine.

If you want to make knives or want a better 2 x 42 machine? Look here.
www.cootebeltgrinder.com
 
If you want the platen the way mine is, yes. The stock platen is wider and kind of gets in the way. Mine is made by a fellow named Mark Reich, he does exceptionally good work, and the price he asks for his modded platen is very, VERY reasonable. It's worth every dime if you want to use it for grinding from both sides.
 
But is it usable with the factory one? is it flat and hard enough originally?

I dont really know what im talking about but i read on the craftsman that you NEED to replace the platen, im just wondering if you HAD to mod the kalamazoo.

I dont really know what the platen is or does really.
 
Craftsman belt speed is 4400 fpm vs. 1725 for the Kalamazoo. 4400 fpm scares me- am I being silly?
 
I have both and find the Kalamazoo to be the superior machine, not that it gets much use.

the platen is just a flat plate on the grinder, behind the belt. Both of these grinders need platen mods if you want clean plunge lines or to sharpen knives with scales or handles that stick out.
 
Thanks for the information.

Its getting late and i have had several beers but im a little foggy on the idea still... In this video he is sharpening a knife with handles but i dont see any plate behind the belt.

[video=youtube;T7Jrj3TfiLI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Jrj3TfiLI[/video]


Is the mod for the plate difficult? is it something i can just order and screw on?

Thanks everyone for the help, and time you spent answering my questions!!!

And every thread is better with pictures, here is my most recent knife picture.

u4z2.jpg
 
Ok, let's see if I can answer some of those. :)

The high rate of belt speed will take off material faster. This is both a plus and a minus. For sharpening purposes, mostly a minus. It builds heat a lot faster, and is easier to make mistakes. For wood shaping, though, it is a good thing, it cuts the time required down a fair bit. Honestly, I'd prefer to just use a coarser belt on the Kalamazoo if I need material to come off faster, myself.

Tatteredmight is correct, the Kalamazoo's stock platen is meant for grinding a flat object, using the work rest. It does NOT work at all for shaping the left hand side of the blade, the platen gets in the way. For sharpening (as you're seeing in the video, he's removed the platen entirely) you usually sharpen in the slack anyway.

Replacing the platen is as simple as removing two bolts, and replacing them with the new platen in place of the old one. :) You can see what the mod comprises of in the photos I've attached here, the stock one is just basically shortened in height, and a piece of steel exactly as wide as the belt is bolted on to the top of the newly-shortened stock platen. That lets you use BOTH sides of the belt for shaping, instead of just the right-hand side.

20130329144813.jpg


20130329144800.jpg
 
I purchased this one from a particularly great guy by the name of Mark Reich, goes by the name of "Ytreich" over on KnifeForums. You basically send him your stock one and some cash, and he'll fix you up with a new one. The price is more than reasonable, and he's awesome to work with.
 
The Kalamazoo is great for sharpening knives. Baldor motor is excellent for long life. Large assortment of belts are available for this machine. Speed is a plus for sharpening. I have added an adjustable platen so I sharpen between the platen so that the belt does not deflect much.
P10100021-vi.jpg
 
I'm gonna go against the grain here and actually discourage you from buying a belt grinder at all, at least for now. I sincerely don't think you need one, and I'm willing to bet you lunch that it will cost too much and cause more problems than it solves at this point.

Unless you really need to remove a lot of material, it's not going to save you that much time, and while electricity is our friend, it also tends to make small mistakes happen much quicker, and become much worse. It's always better to get it right slowly, than to foul it up real fast :D

If you just need to sharpen and possibly re-profile edges, a good set of diamond "stones" and a willingness to practice a bit is all you need. Natural and waterstones work great too, diamonds simply cut faster and stay flatter longer. Look into the classic guided systems like Sharpmaker and Lansky if you're not comfortable working free-hand. In my opinion, you're going to need the "hand-powered" stones and a strop down the road regardless, whether you ever buy a powered grinder/sharpener or not.

If you also want to shape/build/modify handles, a coping saw (for hardwoods) or hacksaw (for horn/antler/synthetics like G10, micarta), basic set of rasps and files, and a selection of 3M or Norton "automotive" wet/dry sandpaper are all you truly need for nice weekend project.

You will also need a drill for serious handle work, and I highly recommend a basic tabletop drill press... even cheap used ones are better than trying to hold a hand-held drill straight/plumb/square - and may actually cost less if you shop around. If I had to start my career all over again, I would buy a drill press, an inexpensive 'machinist's vise' and some top-quality bits before even considering purchasing a belt grinder.

MVF said:
Craftsman belt speed is 4400 fpm vs. 1725 for the Kalamazoo. 4400 fpm scares me- am I being silly?
Click to expand...

No, you're not being silly at all. The CM runs fast, and that means heat... it's way too fast for serious sharpening/honing/stropping. Then again, in my opinion ALL power tools are too fast and generate too much heat for serious sharpening. The only possible exception I know of is paper wheels... and I have my doubts. I'm open to the idea, because I've examined some incredible edges achieved with paper wheels... but I still have concerns about heat and micro-tempering.

Anyway, except for machetes, splitting wedges/axes, cold chisels and lawnmower blades, (all of which are usually fairly soft to begin with, have thick edges and massive thickness behind the edge, and don't need to be hair-splitting sharp anyway) I don't use powertools to do any actual sharpening, only to set the basic edge bevels on new blades.

If you really "need" an electric motor to run your leather strop, your edge wasn't right to begin with, and you're using the wrong tool for the job. Stropping a proper edge from "that's pretty dang sharp" to "OMG, that's SHARP" by hand takes seconds, not minutes.

Rhinoknives1 said:
If the craftsman burns out you an take it back for a new one as long as you haven't modified the machine.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that's true. It's been a couple years but the last time I checked, about the only thing SEARS/Craftsman won't warranty is electric motors.

Generally speaking, I know very few knife-users who either need to, or have the skills to use a powered sharpening system properly, and I know relatively few professional knifemakers who don't hone their final edges by hand.
 
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You might consider a Viel belt sander (for example, here's one at Lee Valley)... it runs 1x42 belts, fairly compact, and you can get a motor anywhere... I have one that has basically a swamp cooler motor on it...

bbdb50cc0241131789fa3bb20fcb7d36_zps78cc1a04.jpg


... (I have another with a variable speed motor on it). You can run it vertical or horizontal, have it turn either direction (depending on the motor... most can be changed just by switching wires around) the pulley size keeps the speed down, has a decent platen to sharpen on (I added a piece of felt to mine), or sharpen just above it for a convex grind. Throw it in a closet when done if you want... doesn't take up much room.
 
rpttrsn said:
The Kalamazoo is great for sharpening knives. Baldor motor is excellent for long life. Large assortment of belts are available for this machine. Speed is a plus for sharpening. I have added an adjustable platen so I sharpen between the platen so that the belt does not deflect much.
P10100021-vi.jpg
Click to expand...

Now THAT is a friggin' awesome platen! I have never seen that before, I'm thinking I'll give that one a try myself as well!
 
james terrio said:
I'm gonna go against the grain here and actually discourage you from buying a belt grinder at all, at least for now. I sincerely don't think you need one, and I'm willing to bet you lunch that it will cost too much and cause more problems than it solves at this point.

Unless you really need to remove a lot of material, it's not going to save you that much time, and while electricity is our friend, it also tends to make small mistakes happen much quicker, and become much worse. It's always better to get it right slowly, than to foul it up real fast :D

If you just need to sharpen and possibly re-profile edges, a good set of diamond "stones" and a willingness to practice a bit is all you need. Natural and waterstones work great too, diamonds simply cut faster and stay flatter longer. Look into the classic guided systems like Sharpmaker and Lansky if you're not comfortable working free-hand. In my opinion, you're going to need the "hand-powered" stones and a strop down the road regardless, whether you ever buy a powered grinder/sharpener or not.

If you also want to shape/build/modify handles, a coping saw (for hardwoods) or hacksaw (for horn/antler/synthetics like G10, micarta), basic set of rasps and files, and a selection of 3M or Norton "automotive" wet/dry sandpaper are all you truly need for nice weekend project.

You will also need a drill for serious handle work, and I highly recommend a basic tabletop drill press... even cheap used ones are better than trying to hold a hand-held drill straight/plumb/square - and may actually cost less if you shop around. If I had to start my career all over again, I would buy a drill press, an inexpensive 'machinist's vise' and some top-quality bits before even considering purchasing a belt grinder.



No, you're not being silly at all. The CM runs fast, and that means heat... it's way too fast for serious sharpening/honing/stropping. Then again, in my opinion ALL power tools are too fast and generate too much heat for serious sharpening. The only possible exception I know of is paper wheels... and I have my doubts. I'm open to the idea, because I've examined some incredible edges achieved with paper wheels... but I still have concerns about heat and micro-tempering.

Anyway, except for machetes, splitting wedges/axes, cold chisels and lawnmower blades, (all of which are usually fairly soft to begin with, have thick edges and massive thickness behind the edge, and don't need to be hair-splitting sharp anyway) I don't use powertools to do any actual sharpening, only to set the basic edge bevels on new blades.

If you really "need" an electric motor to run your leather strop, your edge wasn't right to begin with, and you're using the wrong tool for the job. Stropping a proper edge from "that's pretty dang sharp" to "OMG, that's SHARP" by hand takes seconds, not minutes.



I'm not sure that's true. It's been a couple years but the last time I checked, about the only thing SEARS/Craftsman won't warranty is electric motors.

Generally speaking, I know very few knife-users who either need to, or have the skills to use a powered sharpening system properly, and I know relatively few professional knifemakers who don't hone their final edges by hand.
Click to expand...
Strange world we live in. I can't freehand for the life of me, but I have no problem with sharpening $500+ midtechs on a powered system.

Heat generation is debatable. I typically regrind blades starting with a 36 grit belt, and I'd have to go at it for 10 minutes before the blade even gets uncomfortably warm. I've also rarely ever made mistakes in the sense that I grind off too much metal, even though I'm aiming to regrind my blades to something like a zero edge flat grind. You can adjust the metal removal speed by changing to finer belts, and once you have a good feel of it, you can raise a burr without taking off years of metal from the edge.
 
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