Kali and Balisong

F

French Goupil

Joined
Jul 5, 2001
Messages
21
Flipping like a copter with your favorite stainless friend is fun.
But some very sober kali techniques added to balisong moves bring a really efficient way of defense.
 
I often thought about this, but have never looked into it further. Could you go into more detail... and example or two?
 
Adding a bit if Kali to any knife is a good defense technique.

You may wish to read this essay that I wrote on the relationship between balisongs and martial arts.

Keep in mind that we have some separate forums here at bladeforums.com to discuss martial arts-related issues. There's even a separate forum just for Filipino Combative Arts related discussions.

As long as the discussion is balisong-centric, it can stay here.
 
Some years ago, I thought balisong use was only free-style flipping. When I saw a demonstration of Kali with one, then two balisongs, I understood I was wrong...

It was incredible.

Practising Kali with sticks is quite hard because you have to learn to hit correctly. But it's easier with knives. An more deadly...

Imagine a circular and uninterrupted flow of blades cutting everywhere like a slashing machine. That's Kali with balisongs.
 
Chuck - I've read that particular essay before, at least twice through. Very well written. I'm actually quite obsessed with idea of seemingly pointless talents. Some might call it fidgetting. I try to never let my hands be at rest, even though what I might be twiddling with will never get me anywhere. It makes hands quick to learn and keeps them in shape.

French Goupil - Are you saying that the balisong is used in an open, free-swinging position during combat? That's pretty amazing! I'd assume much of it is done gripping the bite handle(???). I'm really going to have to look into this further.
 
Blasto,
What I've seen was:
- balisong useds as kali's sticks.
- right blade goes in a basic kali left to right circular slash
- left blade follows the right one
- right blade comes again from right-up to left-down
- left blade follows
- every moves are fluids, the feet are dancing
- the flow can never end
- the first slashe missed you? the second one will get your arm, and the next one will get your face and etc...
- more that 3 slashes a second at differents target (arms, legs, throats)
- wrists are very flexible, to adapt the blade to the form of the target and to make larger wounds.
 
I apologise, gentlemen:

In Bali-French (french balisong's slang), the word "slash" means:

- to cut with a balisong (verb)
- a good old large balisong cut (noun)

That's why:
 
Allo French Goupil!

Ca và? :) (that's my limited French ;) ) a big welcome, i hope that you'll stay, it's a great place!

Really interesting this, FMA linked to bali-songs :) (i'm a tad out of recent FMA training so sorry for any mistakes in technicalities)
IF, we're talking sinawali/redonda (chaining, flowing) drills here i just wanted to share my thinking on this.

My idea is that it's bad to cross one's arms repeatedly, crossing one's arms (might) make it easier for your opponent to trap your arms.

I definitly agree that it'd be VERY hard to avoid being cut by a properly trained individual when he/she's doing redonda/sinawali, but i don't feel that it might be the ultimate way (due to the trapping risk).

I don't really agree with that it's easier with knives then with sticks, it's quite important to have proper blade (edge) orientation when cutting/slashing, otherwise you'll get a bad or no cut. (in my experience hitting hard with a blade that it's not properly edge oriented might cause you to have the knife ripped out of your hand due to it getting snagged in clothing)
Sticks has 100% hitting area, as you can hit with it all around itself.
A knife obviously has to hit with the edge to make a cut, most knives only has one edge, or at the maximum two edges.

Just my 2 cents. Interesting discussion :)
(please note, all the cutting i've done is to cutting dummies and to sparring partners with drones, NO actual "street" confrontations, thankfully)
 
Hi 2Sharp!

Yeah, that place is really great, and, as soon as I will have my "internet 20 hours pass", I think will come very often. (In France, Internet access is not cheap yet)

Your point of view is really interesting.
That true: the blade orientation is really important. And crossing arms during the flow can be dangerous.
But for a beginner like me, I think the basic kali (or pseudo-kali!) flow is the best and easiest attack technique.
What I've been shown in kali with Balisongs was really impressing and deadly.

The danger of having arms trapped:
Grasping the arms of someone handling a knife is really dangerous: with a simple wrist move, you can be cut by your opponent, no?

The main problem stays: if your opponent is REALLY good, he will get your knife, break one or two of your arms, maybe a leg or some fingers, before closing YOUR balisong with a large nice smile...
If he's in a good mood, perhaps he will give you back your knife!!!
I'm joking but that's my opinion.

My experience with sticks, nunchaks and other tonfas is really bad. Hitting efficiently with wooden stick is (for me) really hard. Hitting is not enough: you have to get the guy at the firts hit.
And a lot of people prefers trying to come closer against an opponent armed with sticks or nunchak. When someone grasp your nunchak or your stick, you feel really sorry!!

But people trying to grasp knives are not really common, are they?
 
Howdy!

I agree that flow would definitly make for an effective attack, just make sure that you've got 100% control or you might lose an elbow... ;)

And concerning trapping, i'm thinking about locking the arms, not necesserely actually grabbing them, trapping like i've done in Wing Chun doesn't require grabbing of the arms, usually one works on the elbows to achive locks/traps, and then the person that has been locked up can wave as much as they wants, nothing much happens :)
But of course, any blade encounter would be fluid and x-tremely different to cope with but this makes for an interesting discussion :)
And if you'd face a adversary with a blade do expect to get cut.

In Modern Arnis i'd done a lot of different disarms based on if someone grabs your stick, i do not agree that one is doomed just beacause my stick is grabbed (no jokes about that, thanks :) ) and just 'cuz i have my stick doesn't mean that i cannot kick/punch/knee/whatever (i'm not a stickfighter but i might use sticks when i fight)

I'd say that it's quite common for people to try to grab knives, my understanding is that most knifeassaulted victims has defensive wounds on their hands/underarms, from parrying and trying to grab the knife (or knife hand) but grabbing a stick would of course be easier.

Neat discussion, but we might want to take this to private e-mail or move it to any of the martial arts forums, Gollnick might be MAD :eek:at us for not keeping with the topic of the forum, we wouldn't want that... ;)
(edited trying to fix my spelling errors)
 
No we would not want that...:p

But, if I go to any another martial arts forum to speak about mixing MA and balisong, is there a risk that another Gollnick comes and tell me that I'm not supposed to speak about knives on a MA forum?

Hu hu hu!:) :)

Good night.
 
Let me first start by saying that I have no problem with discussions of martial arts and knife fighting. I study Arnis myself.

But, this forum is about balisong knives. While I certainly appreciate the relationship between the two topics, I've also worked hard to keep the two somewhat separate maintaining that you don't have to be a martial artist to be interested in balisongs. Again, the aforementioned essay (which I actually started after another such thread here in the BS forum), explains a bit of that.

The concern that if you start discussing balisong and knives in a MA forum, some people might get offended is a very valid one. Many MAs choose to define weapons away. "That's not fair!" or "That's not our rules." Ok, fine. If it's a game or sport for you, then that's true.

I saw an ad recently for a new type of golf ball. The ad points out that these balls are actually illegal for PGA-sanctioned tournament play. Ok. Golf is a game that has rules. Those rules are arbitrary, yes, but, because every player has to live within the same rules, they are fair.

Self-defense is not a game, it's not a tournament. There are no rules. Filipino Combative Arts usually recognize that. Weapons are part of "the game." The reason I like the Filipino approach is that it integrates weapons right from the start. A new student at API where I study will probably have a weapon in his hand in his first class and will just about certainly be using knives and machetes within the first few weeks.

As a result, I don't think you'll find that discussions of weapons are unwelcome in FCA-related forums.

So, I'm gonna let Don take this one over as I move it (wish me luck since I haven't done this with the new software) to the FCA forum.

Please don't misunderstand this move. This is a great topic, but I think it will get more and better discussion in the FCA forum.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top