Kanetsune blade advice

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rprocter

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I just received a new, unused Kanetsune Urushi KB203 Fixed Blade.
Pic. shows sheath, knife, and paper blade wrapper.

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The blade steel is a 15 layer Damascus of Hitachi Blue Steel hardened to Rc61-62. Convex zero grind. hard to capture in pics, but here's the blade:

customs004-12.jpg

customs003-14.jpg


The convex grind appears to come to zero looking with 10x loupe. i.e. both grinds meet to make the edge.
Problem is, it is not sharp enough to shave arm hair. this surprises me because i have read posts by a few people stating that their Kats. arrived super sharp, hair poppin and beyond. there is no burr and i cannot see a wire edge.
I'm a beginner at sharpening and i have screwed up other new knives and ended up taking off way more steel than was needed before ending up with a so-so edge. I have never tried a convex grind but have a JRE Convex Sharpening kit ready to go.
I would like advice on best approach for this blade. maybe it won't take much, so try stropping first ? bare leather or with compound ?
then move up to a fine sandpaper with the JRE ? if so, how fine ?
does sharpie trick work here to see if i am maintaining the same radius of convexity ?
etc. i'll appreciate any experienced advice given.
thanks, roland
 
You could try stropping it (loaded) a bit, and if it doesn't get sharp get out the sandpaper (I use waterstones usually). It looks like it shouldn't need a whole lot of work, but tough to tell with a picture.
 
Start with a loaded strop and if that doesn't work start with 1k and work up. Go slow, use good judgment, and don't worry too much.
 
The Bark River site has detailed instructions for convex sharpening which i have followed.
I heated up the leather with a heat gun and rubbed in yellow rouge. couldn't tell how much went into the leather but i did end up with patches of yellow showing. Stropped about 20x each side, applying v. little pressure as per BRK instructions. no change, still won't shave arm hair or push cut newsprint.
Then i mounted a 400 grit paper (included in JRE kit) and applied 'sharpie' marker to edge. after about 20 minutes the sharpie black was removed, verified with a 10x loupe.
now it might be marginally sharper but still will not shave or cut paper. This i do not understand. i have about 2 years experience with an EdgePro and SharpMaker and with these, once all traces of black ink are gone from the edge, a blade will shave and paper cut. why should this not be the same ?
I am assuming i need to get a shaving sharp edge before stropping again. correct ?
also, if i can get a shaving edge with the 400 grit, can i then go straight to strop or should i work up through the grits to the finest (1500) ?
getting a little frustrated as i bought this Kanetsune because i thought they came scary sharp. a $10 Rough Rider is way sharper than i have been able to get this Kanetsune so far.
i will be grateful for more advice at this point.
thanks, roland
 
rprocter said:
The Bark River site has detailed instructions for convex sharpening which i have followed.
I heated up the leather with a heat gun and rubbed in yellow rouge. couldn't tell how much went into the leather but i did end up with patches of yellow showing. Stropped about 20x each side, applying v. little pressure as per BRK instructions. no change, still won't shave arm hair or push cut newsprint.
Then i mounted a 400 grit paper (included in JRE kit) and applied 'sharpie' marker to edge. after about 20 minutes the sharpie black was removed, verified with a 10x loupe.
now it might be marginally sharper but still will not shave or cut paper. This i do not understand. i have about 2 years experience with an EdgePro and SharpMaker and with these, once all traces of black ink are gone from the edge, a blade will shave and paper cut. why should this not be the same ?
I am assuming i need to get a shaving sharp edge before stropping again. correct ?
also, if i can get a shaving edge with the 400 grit, can i then go straight to strop or should i work up through the grits to the finest (1500) ?
getting a little frustrated as i bought this Kanetsune because i thought they came scary sharp. a $10 Rough Rider is way sharper than i have been able to get this Kanetsune so far.
i will be grateful for more advice at this point.
thanks, roland
Click to expand...

What are you using to back the sandpaper? This can make a big difference in how much pressure/what angle/ how long to sharpen. If it leather. The stiffer the leather the higher the angle, by higher I mean barely higher than flat. Just make sure you aren't polishing the radius and not the edge. I find that synthetic weight belts (I'm pretty sure they're polyester cotten blend with rubber) make a really nice backing, but also soft leather will work.

When stropping start the blade flat, and slowly rise it till the edge catches the leather, now lower it EVER so slighty and then start stropping. Keep a slow, and controlled pace. I usually do 30 strokes (15 on each) on a fine lowes compound, and then 50 strokes (25 each) on my .5 micron liquid CrO.
 
I'm using a "JRE EMS Sharpening Block System", designed for convex sharpening. Quote "the block is covered with a very dense neoprene to give the proper backing for convex sharpening". i think the problem lies with my technique, not equipment.
What baffles me is that it appeared sharp using a 10x loupe and felt sharp just lightly running my thumb across it. so just a 'touch up' should be all that is needed. i'm tempted to go to a coarser grit sandpaper but then i'll be removing more steel than likely is needed, which is what often happens when i use my Edgepro or Sharpmaker. rather than 'grind away' with a 200 grit, i think i am lacking a finesse in some aspect of my technique that prevents the edge getting really sharp. i can't figure out what it is, but i need to solve this problem. i've wrecked blades on $650 custom folders trying to just 'touch up' the edge. frustrating.
roland
 
rprocter said:
I'm using a "JRE EMS Sharpening Block System", designed for convex sharpening. Quote "the block is covered with a very dense neoprene to give the proper backing for convex sharpening". i think the problem lies with my technique, not equipment.
What baffles me is that it appeared sharp using a 10x loupe and felt sharp just lightly running my thumb across it. so just a 'touch up' should be all that is needed. i'm tempted to go to a coarser grit sandpaper but then i'll be removing more steel than likely is needed, which is what often happens when i use my Edgepro or Sharpmaker. rather than 'grind away' with a 200 grit, i think i am lacking a finesse in some aspect of my technique that prevents the edge getting really sharp. i can't figure out what it is, but i need to solve this problem. i've wrecked blades on $650 custom folders trying to just 'touch up' the edge. frustrating.
roland
Click to expand...

Try to run the blade GENTLY against wood. Just to the point it bites into then run the edge thourgh. That will get rid of any burrs you have, if it's a burr.
Try raising your angle a tad bit. One big problem is that you need to use VERY little pressure just the weight of the blade should be enough.
 
Choco, thanks for the encouragement. This may be the problem: "When stropping start the blade flat, and slowly rise it till the edge catches the leather, now lower it EVER so slighty and then start stropping. "
I was not "lowering it ever so slightly" and was applying some downward pressure, not just the weight of the blade.
does the same advice apply when using the sandpaper as well as the strop ?
i.e. lower ever so slightly and no downward pressure ?
I'll try de-burring on a piece of wood as you suggest and if still not improved i'll re-strop following your advice re angle and no pressure.
then i'll post back with results. if i can master this it will be a quantum leap forward in my sharpening ability.
roland
 
rprocter said:
Choco, thanks for the encouragement. This may be the problem: "When stropping start the blade flat, and slowly rise it till the edge catches the leather, now lower it EVER so slighty and then start stropping. "
I was not "lowering it ever so slightly" and was applying some downward pressure, not just the weight of the blade.
does the same advice apply when using the sandpaper as well as the strop ?
i.e. lower ever so slightly and no downward pressure ?
I'll try de-burring on a piece of wood as you suggest and if still not improved i'll re-strop following your advice re angle and no pressure.
then i'll post back with results. if i can master this it will be a quantum leap forward in my sharpening ability.
roland
Click to expand...

If you are converting a V edge to convex, you want to start with it nearly flat risen ever so slightly, but not touching the VERY edge yet. You want to remove a shoulder first.
When sharping an already convexed edged, don't the bite technique as that could dull your blade, and remove a little to much metal. You want to start at a slight rise, make sure you are looking at the edge. Once it touches start sharpening ever so gently. If you want to apply a little pressure lower the angle to a very shallow angle, and apply very little downward pressure. I don't recommend pressure as there isn't a lot of room for error.

You should be shaving sharp off of a 1k grit sandpaper, but you shouldn't have a mirror polish. 2k grit should get a little bit higher than shaving, and a hazy mirror. Stropping will get you lazer beam edges that shine like silver.
 
I went to the Kanetsune website to see what info i might find and then emailed them regarding what their knife edge should be like.
here is their reply:

"Thank you for your inquiry and purchasing our products.
Please note that the blade has been coated with clear lacquer paint in order
to prevent rust,
so you should remove the coating before you use the knife by wiping out with ethanol or something similar.
We don't not put a very sharp edge on the blade 'cause each person prefers a different angle of the edge depend on what type of material you are dealing
with.
The blade is convex ground.

Kindest regards,

Ken Matsumoto
Kitasho Co., Ltd."

So, i do need to remove more steel than i had thought.
My plan now is to use the fine Emery paper first and then the 320 grit and progress up to finer grits before stropping and to follow the advice given here, especially, no downward pressure.
may take a few days as there is "the rest of life" to deal with as well, but i will post back with my results.
thanks guys, roland
 
Most high-quality carbon steel knives, such as chef's knives depend upon the buyer to put the final edge on as per Mr. Matsumoto's advice. The convex- zero blades usually require a good loaded stropping. I would avoid putting a bevel on the edge as that will take away from what the convex blade brings in edge retention. The Hitachi Blue @ Hrc61-62 is very hard steel and will hold an edge for a very long time between regular stropping's. I suggest visiting the Rockstead knife website as they also feature Hitachi steels with a convex edge. They go into detail about maintaining the factory edge.
 
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