Kanetsune edges

Brutus013

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What kind of edges do Kanetsune knives have from the factory? I know that they are usually very sharp out of the box, but what kind of grind do they have? Approximate angles, flat/convex, etc.

Also, what carbon/stainless steels are roughly comparable to the white and blue paper steels that Kanetsune use? From what I've gathered, the white steel can take a keener edge, but dulls faster, but that's about all I know, and I don't know how big of a difference it is.

Any help?
 
From the "other forum"

1095, W1, W2, Hitachi Yellow (Shigami): These steels are all similar, essentially 1.00% C and iron, with the minimum of manganese for hardenability and (hopefully) trace impurity. W2 has .2% vanadium added for grain refinement. These steels can be heat treated very hard, and respond very well to various thermal cycles because they are very simple. They have low wear resistance compared to many other steels, only surpassing steels used by forgers for high toughness like 5160 or 1075. Toughness is moderate and edge stability is very high.

Hitachi White (Shirogami) steel: Similar to 1095 and W1 but with even more carbon (1.45%), this steel gets very hard and has a moderate amount of small iron carbides. Higher wear resistance than 1095 or W1 but does not have great wear resistance. Has fairly poor toughness but very good edge stability.

Hitachi Blue (Aogami) #1 and #2: The major downfall of simple carbon steels is their comparatively low wear resistance because of the lower hardness of iron carbide. These steels have high tungsten to form the much harder tungsten carbides for wear resistance. They still have good edge stability because the tungsten carbides are still easily broken up in forging. Blue #1 and #2 have greater wear resistance than any of the previous steels as well as still having good toughness and edge stability. When two steels have the same carbide size and volume but the one steel has harder carbides, the steels will have similar toughness and edge stability but the one with harder carbides will have greater wear resistance. These harder carbides do make the steel somewhat more difficult to sharpen. Blue #1 and #2 are good general purpose steels because they have greater wear resistance than most other simple carbon steels while still having the high edge stability and toughness of most carbon steels. Blue #1 and #2 have less carbon, tungsten, and extra alloy than Blue Super, though in varying amounts, Blue #1 is more wear resistant and less tough than Blue #2.

Hitachi Blue (Aogami) Super: White steel modified with some alloy for greater hardenability and high tungsten for harder carbides. The highest in wear resistance of any of the simple carbon steels generally used in kitchen knives, and also the lowest in toughness. Does have good edge stability because the carbides are little bigger than those in other steels, but is a little bit lower because they are a little bit larger and in a greater volume. Still has much better edge stability than large carbide stainless steels. This steel has one of the highest combinations of wear resistance and edge stability, properties that are generally opposed to each other, which means it is suitable for a variety of cutting tasks or types of knives. Its main disadvantages are low toughness and of course no corrosion resistance.

credits for knifeforum member watercrawl
 
If this one was in Aogami #2, I bought one :(

1kb-135.jpg
 
Awesome post, thanks. Wear resistance and edge stability are more important to me than toughness, and since the white steel surpasses 1095 (a quite decent steel, imo) in both categories, while still remaining easy to sharpen, that sounds quite good.

Now I just need some info on whether or not the edge is flat ground or convex...
 
Edge stability is term not used very often:
Edge Stability – Simple explanation: Ability to hold a fine, acute, polished edge.
In depth: Edge stability is controlled most by carbide size and volume. The finer the carbide structure, the better a steel is at holding sharpness when sharpened very acutely and at a high polish. Evidences of a steel with low edge stability are losing initial sharpness quickly or chipping either while cutting or while sharpening with an acute bevel. The finer the edge and the finer the polish the more this will be apparent. Edge stability and toughness are often connected, but not always the same. Sometimes a steel can have high edge stability with fairly low toughness, or a steel with low edge stability can have moderate toughness. Blue Super has fairly high edge stability but low toughness; D2 has low edge stability but moderate toughness. Generally wear resistance and edge stability are opposed to each other since a greater volume of carbides means greater wear resistance but less toughness and edge stability, meaning one of the most important factors for selecting a steel are how much slicing it will be doing and how thick the edge will be. As already said, usually edge stability is more important in kitchen knives.

by watercrawl
 
They have convex edges. Don't try to reprofile them as the steels are very hard and you may make them more prone to chipping if you thin it out.

They do come 'sharp', but I have found it necessary to strop them on leather to get them to the level of sharpness that I prefer (equal to a Scandi). This also removed the layer of clear lacquer the the blade was coated with to prevent rusting (all the Japanese non-chef knives I have purchased have been coated this way).
 
I got this Kanetsune knife around six months ago. IIRC, it's an exclusive model for A.G. Russell. They just call it the 7" Japanese Hunter.

kanetsune.jpg


The blade is blue steel and has a convex saber grind. It's flat on the sides, then about halfway down, there's a convex primary grind that goes all the way to the edge. There's no secondary edge bevel.

Don't try to reprofile them as the steels are very hard and you may make them more prone to chipping if you thin it out.

Yeah... Mine was sharp out of the box, but pretty thick behind the edge. I thinned it out a bit with DMT hones, then tried finishing with the Sharpmaker and a fine Norton India stone, but I kept getting micro-chips just from sharpening. I eventually put a thicker edge on it with Japanese water stones. It's held up well so far with no chipping, although it only sees light duty as a desk knife.
 
my murray carter kitchen blade has hitacih white in center of blade; r.r 63. cuts a looong time. d'ont drop them in sink; can chip.
 
Our O-7 steel is the closest to Blue steel:

C 1.10-1.30
Mn 0.50
Si 0.60
Cr 0.35-0.85
Ni 0.30
Mo 0.30
W 1.40-2.20
V 0.40

I have no clue where one can buy the steel though.
 
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cotdt post on o7 was interesting. i've had some blades out of 06
great performers at r.w. 60-61.
would have to go to local shows to see if maker is still using it.
have'nt heard it mentioned on forum.
does anyone still use this stuff?
the w1& w2 were more pop. in 70s & 80s by forgers
noticed it mentioned alot since 2005; originally was h20 or brine quenched
contempeory makers [forgers must be doing a different heat treat]
compared to heattreats use 25 yrs, new guys are doing stuff that is light yrs.beyond the 1990s. damn it really drives home my age,however i do'nt regret being old since i'm so healthy.
 
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