Kansas Legislature Passes Knife Law Preemption Fix - CALL or EMAIL Governor Brownback

Critter

Critter

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In the waning hours of its 2014 legislative session on Saturday the Kansas House passed HB 2578 by a vote of 102-19. It passed in the state Senate the day prior by a 37-2 vote. HB 2578 includes Knife Rights' fix to address the Attorney General's adverse, and questionable, opinion that the preemption language in Knife Rights' Comprehensive Knife Reform bill passed last year did not repeal existing laws more restrictive than state law. HB 2578 now moves to the Governor for his consideration.

If you live, work or travel in Kansas, please CALL or EMAIL Governor Sam Brownback and ask him to sign HB 2578.

Phone: (Toll Free) 1-877-579-6757 or 785-296-3232 or or e-mail him here.

Whether writing or calling, all that is necessary is to simply ask the Governor to sign HB 2578. That's it, keep it short and to the point.
 
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Thank you for all you do Doug. I saw your heads up the other day and immediately emailed my representative and senator, and will now email the Governor. Thanks for looking after our rights.
 
The way the bill was presented to Governor Brownback today has some wording that is a bit scary.
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/documents/summary_hb_2578_2014.pdf This is the summery of bill HB 2578.

"Daggers, dirks, dangerous knives, straight-edged razors, and stilettos are added to the
list of prohibited weapons, and the possession of any such dangerous weapon with the intent to
use it against another person now constitute the crime of criminal use of a weapon."

The "intent" part leaves a lot up to the officer.
 
I've been searching, and searching, and searching all of HB 2758, and I can find absolutely ZERO mention of anything related to knives, daggers, dirks, stilettos, straight razors and such. Can somebody PLEASE point me to exactly where these items are mentioned in the bill? I'm sick and ****ing tired of being told that it's there, but not seeing it when I try to read the bill myself.

Because if Presz is correct about this latest development, then I want to know exactly why Knife Rights didn't fight against the passage of this blatantly terrible bill in the first place, and instead allowed for the hard earned victory of last year to be completely undone, and let Kansas wind up back at square one all over again. Now some of us are really screwed.
 
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http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/hb2578/
Look at the "Enrolled" that was sent to the Governor to sign. Page 14 Sec. 13 has the part I quoted from the summary of the bill I linked yesterday.

This bill has become not very pro gun or pro knife. Penalties have been increase all around. Open carry is a go, but who is that dumb. Just asking for trouble.
 
presz said:
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2013_14/measures/hb2578/
Look at the "Enrolled" that was sent to the Governor to sign. Page 14 Sec. 13 has the part I quoted from the summary of the bill I linked yesterday.
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Sec. 13. K.S.A. 2013 Supp. 22-2512 is hereby amended to read as
follows: 22-2512. (1)
(a)
Property seized under a search warrant or validly
seized without a warrant shall be safely kept by the officer seizing the
same unless otherwise directed by the magistrate, and shall be so kept as
long as necessary for the purpose of being produced as evidence on any
trial. The property seized may not be taken from the officer having it in
custody so long as it is or may be required as evidence in any trial. The
officer seizing the property shall give a receipt to the person detained or
arrested particularly describing each article of property being held and
shall file a copy of such receipt with the magistrate before whom the
person detained or arrested is taken. Where seized property is no longer
required as evidence in the prosecution of any indictment or information,
the court which has jurisdiction of such property may transfer the same
to the jurisdiction of any other court, including courts of another state or
federal courts, where it is shown to the satisfaction of the court that such
property is required as evidence in any prosecution in such other court.
(2) (a)
(b) (1)
Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (1)
(a)
and with the approval of the affected court, any law enforcement officer
who seizes hazardous materials as evidence related to a criminal investi-
gation may collect representative samples of such hazardous materials,
and lawfully destroy or dispose of, or direct another person to lawfully
destroy or dispose of the remaining quantity of such hazardous materials.
(b)
(2)
In any prosecution, representative samples of hazardous ma-
terials accompanied by photographs, videotapes, laboratory analysis re-
ports or other means used to verify and document the identity and quan-
tity of the material shall be deemed competent evidence of such
hazardous materials and shall be admissible in any proceeding, hearing
or trial as if such materials had been introduced as evidence.
(c)
(3)
As used in this section, the term ‘‘hazardous materials’’ means
any substance which is capable of posing an unreasonable risk to health,
safety and property. It shall include any substance which by its nature is
explosive, flammable, corrosive, poisonous, radioactive, a biological haz-
ard or a material which may cause spontaneous combustion. It shall in-
clude, but not be limited to, substances listed in the table of hazardous
materials contained in the code of federal regulations title 49 and national
fire protection association’s fire protection guide on hazardous materials.
(d)
(4)
The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to ammunition
and components thereof.
(3)
(c)
When property seized is no longer required as evidence, it
shall be disposed of as follows:
(a)
(1)
Property stolen, embezzled, obtained by false pretenses, or
otherwise obtained unlawfully from the rightful owner thereof shall be
restored to the owner;
(b)
(2)
money shall be restored to the owner unless it was contained
in a slot machine or otherwise used in unlawful gambling or lotteries, in
which case it shall be forfeited, and shall be paid to the state treasurer
pursuant to K.S.A. 20-2801, and amendments thereto;
(c)
(3)
property which is unclaimed or the ownership of which is
unknown shall be sold at public auction to be held by the sheriff and the
proceeds, less the cost of sale and any storage charges incurred in preserving it, shall be paid to the state treasurer pursuant to K.S.A. 20-2801,
and amendments thereto;
(d)
(4)
articles of contraband shall be destroyed, except that any such
articles the disposition of which is otherwise provided by law shall be
dealt with as so provided and any such articles the disposition of which
is not otherwise provided by law and which may be capable of innocent
use may in the discretion of the court be sold and the proceeds disposed
of as provided in subsection (2)(b)
(c)(3)
;
(e)
(5)
firearms, ammunition,
explosives, bombs and like devices,
which have been used in the commission of crime, may be returned to
the rightful owner, or in the discretion of the court having jurisdiction of
the property, destroyed or forfeited to the Kansas bureau of investigation
as provided in K.S.A. 2013 Supp. 21-6307, and amendments thereto
;
(6) (A) except as provided in subsections (c)(6)(B) and (d), any
weapon or ammunition, in the discretion of the court having jurisdiction
of the property, shall be:
(i) Forfeited to the law enforcement agency seizing the weapon for
use within such agency, for sale to a properly licensed federal firearms
dealer, for trading to a properly licensed federal firearms dealer for other
new or used firearms or accessories for use within such agency or for
trading to another law enforcement agency for that agency’s use;
(ii) forfeited to the Kansas bureau of investigation for law enforce-
ment, testing or comparison by the Kansas bureau of investigation forensic
laboratory;
(iii) forfeited to a county regional forensic science center, or other
county forensic laboratory for testing, comparison or other forensic sci-
ence purposes; or
(iv) forfeited to the Kansas department of wildlife, parks and tourism
for use pursuant to the conditions set forth in K.S.A. 32-1047, and amend-
ments thereto.
(B) Except as provided in subsection (d), any weapon which cannot
be forfeited pursuant to subsection (c)(6)(A) due to the condition of the
weapon, and any weapon which was used in the commission of a felony
as described in K.S.A. 2013 Supp. 21-5401, 21-5402, 21-5403, 21-5404
or 21-5405, and amendments thereto, shall be destroyed.
(f)
(7)
controlled substances forfeited for violations of K.S.A. 2013
Supp. 21-5701 through 21-5717, and amendments thereto, shall be dealt
with as provided under K.S.A. 60-4101 through 60-4126, and amend-
ments thereto;
(g)
(8)
unless otherwise provided by law, all other property shall be
disposed of in such manner as the court in its sound discretion shall direct.
(d) If a weapon is seized from an individual and the individual is not
convicted of or adjudicated as a juvenile offender for the violation for
which the weapon was seized, then within 30 days after the declination
or conclusion of prosecution of the case against the individual, including
any period of appeal, the law enforcement agency that seized the weapon
shall verify that the weapon is not stolen, and upon such verification shall
notify the person from whom it was seized that the weapon may be re-
trieved. Such notification shall include the location where such weapon
may be retrieved.
(e) If weapons are sold as authorized by subsection (c)(6)(A), the pro-
ceeds of the sale shall be credited to the asset seizure and forfeiture fund
of the seizing agency.
(f) For purposes of this section, the term ‘‘weapon’’ means a weapon
described in K.S.A. 2013 Supp. 21-6301, and amendments thereto.

That's all of section 13. Where's the mention of knives and such?

This bill has become not very pro gun or pro knife. Penalties have been increase all around. Open carry is a go, but who is that dumb. Just asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

So why hasn't Knife Rights withdrawn its support of the bill and fought to deny its passage? How come we've been screwed and nobody told us jack **** about it going on?

I wanna know exactly how we got ****ed in this deal, and exactly why we should extend anymore trust to the people at Knife Rights when they did nothing to warn us that this development was occurring, back in the early stages when we could've called to object to it.
 
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Got me. We talked about it a little last night in the concealed carry class I am taking. The instructor didn't think that the bill is a good thing at all for gun rights. Some of the other students acted like the open carry part of it was wonderful, he shot that down very quickly. :)

The half the people that are taking the class scare the crap out me. 60 year old woman with a .38 special she hasn't ever shot. Off the paper at 7 yards with half her shots. She couldn't pass qualifying with it and had to rent a .22.
 
It would be nice if legislation was simple and straightforward, but often it isn't. Let me be clear upfront that the intent language that was added to our bill was done without Knife Rights’ knowledge or agreement, and we are not happy about it.

Knife Rights Knife Law Preemption fix in Kansas was necessary because of an adverse opinion by the Kansas Attorney General on last year's comprehensive knife law reform bill which stated that ordinances existing on the day of enactment would be grandfathered.

We came up with a simple fix which our sponsor filed. At the same time as our bill was submitted a major gun bill was moving through the legislature. Our bill stalled and we were offered an opportunity to add our Knife Law Preemption fix to the big gun bill, as otherwise there was a little to no chance we would get the bill done this year. We accepted. Our language was added to the gun bill, intact and with nothing about "intent."

While in conference committee about 25 amendments were made to the gun bill. When the gun bill sponsor was in the final negotiations there was major opposition to our Knife Law Preemption fix from law enforcement and prosecutors who were not happy that the original bill last year deleted the "intent" part of the law.

Unfortunately, the sponsor of the underlying gun bill did not consult with us and agreed to the amendment on his own. This was done without Knife Rights’ knowledge or agreement. He never told us or our original sponsor about the addition and as a result we only found out about it when the engrossed version of the bill was finally published.

Most critically, this bill does fix the AG's opinion, repealing all local knife laws and preventing new ones from being enacted. That part is a huge win that affects many Kansans.

As to this unwelcome addition, it DOES NOT create a POSSESSION prohibition, which we got repealed last year.

This language that law enforcement and prosecutors insisted upon clarifies that the protections afforded by the state’s revised knife laws do not apply to someone acting with criminal intent against another person. While we don't like it being there, the intent language that was added is actually very narrow, only applying to crimes against other people.

We will be taking a hard look at what we can do to fix this going forward.

The governor is expected to sign this bill shortly. I hope this helps explain what happened and how we got here. Kansas knife owners will still be in a far better place than they were previously with the patchwork of local restrictions voided.
 
Thank you for summarizing the changes. It definitely helped me understand the purpose of the bill better.
 
So then what exactly is all this talk about daggers and such once again being prohibited weapons? Realistically for those of us that carry and use big knives rather than guns, what does it mean for us in simple terms? How big of a black ball do we find ourselves behind if this bill gets signed into law?
 
Charlie_K said:
So then what exactly is all this talk about daggers and such once again being prohibited weapons? Realistically for those of us that carry and use big knives rather than guns, what does it mean for us in simple terms? How big of a black ball do we find ourselves behind if this bill gets signed into law?
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Again, this is NOT a possession prohibition. It actually doesn't change much of anything for law-abiding citizens. As long as you don't threaten or assault someone with a knife, you're very unlikely to have a problem.
 
Hopefully in the next legislative session we can get this **** up corrected and once again remove the intent language. Defense of self or another shouldn't be a crime.
 
Charlie_K said:
Hopefully in the next legislative session we can get this **** up corrected and once again remove the intent language. Defense of self or another shouldn't be a crime.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, this language should have no effect on anyone using a knife in legitimate self defense or in defense of another person. Nothing in this language will change Kansas law in respect to self-defense. And, we will be back next session to do something about this.
 
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