Karambit or hawk blade bevel grinding tips?

Shoki

Shoki

Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
7,395
First off: Hello! I think this is my first post here, not sure why I waited so long.



I profiled-out a karambit yesterday and started to experiment with the bevel but I think I'm on the verge of wrecking it beyond hope of ever becoming a knife. I don't currently have access to a belt sander so I tried using my pedestal grinder and 4.5" angle grinder with only marginal success. It was near impossible to maintain my angle on the pedestal from start to finish. The 4.5 inch was easier to keep at the desired angle but was taking material off faster than I could control. I almost tried out the disc sander but I didn't want to make things any worse. My questions are: Is a belt sander the best option for grinding this type of blade shape? Would I be ok with a hand held disc sander (pneumatic) and a medium grit? I've never used an upright belt sander smaller than my grandfather's 6" so I'm not even sure if a small belt sander is what I should be thinking about.

Here's a pic of the blank so far to give you an idea of how much curve I'm working with:
Photoon2012-01-19at1635.jpg


The blank measures almost 9.5", ring to tip and about 5" of blade.

If it's simply a matter of practicing more with the tools I have, I'm perfectly willing. I just want to know which direction I should be heading.
Thanks!
 
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Nobody is into making the big, hooked monstrosities, eh?
Guess I can't blame them.
:o
 
Man be careful!
The geometry of kerambits makes them very tricky to grind with power tools without alot of experience. If you have never used or have minimum exposure to using a belt grinder, that blade design can get out of hand very fast and cause you and machine a lot of damage. Pretty much same with a disc sander, so go cautiously.
 
Shhhhhh.........Mike, most folks don't know where that is! (and them that do can't find it half the time)
Not up there enough to go visiting, always too much to do.
You coming over to Trackrock end of March for some BBQ?
 
Can you get the grind accomplished with what you have? Yes. However, you might not suceed on your first attempt. It will take practice. That means mistakes. Especially with the grind you are trying to do with the tools you have. If I were in your shoes, I would consider using files. It will be slow, but you will be able to maintain the angle easier.
 
Dirk said:
Can you get the grind accomplished with what you have? Yes. However, you might not suceed on your first attempt. It will take practice. That means mistakes. Especially with the grind you are trying to do with the tools you have. If I were in your shoes, I would consider using files. It will be slow, but you will be able to maintain the angle easier.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, I do have quite a few files at my disposal. Would that be a better idea than obtaining a belt grinder? Should I practice more with easier grinds before I tackle this one?
 
What type of grinder were you looking at? If you were considering something like a KMG, Bader etc. I would wait until it arrives. You have a lot of options with these grinders. For me, I find using a 1" platen slighly convex makes grinding curved blades much easier than using a wheel. You can use wider wheels and belts, but you limit your self to working at the edge of the belt and have to be careful about making contact on the opposite side of the belt while you are moving the blade.

Shoud you start with an easier grind? I don't think so. The idea is to do something you like. For some, it is just the idea of making a knife. For others, it is making a particular design or style. Even if you start with an easier grind, you will still make some mistakes and still have to learn. Besides, there are challenges in every type of grind, some look you in the face others hide until you start making a few passes. I say, stay with the kerambit. Expect mistakes, expect some frustration but most of all, expect the pride and joy you will experience when you get to the final product.

The other thing I suggest to everyone starting out, make a few knives using only files and sand paper. It gives you an interesting perspective on making a knife.
 
rally so far it doesnt look too bad
i would work on the grind in the middle and then work out from it to the plaunge cut and the tip (a slightly heaver tip would help cover brakage a bit too)
 
Dirk said:
What type of grinder were you looking at? If you were considering something like a KMG, Bader etc. I would wait until it arrives. You have a lot of options with these grinders. For me, I find using a 1" platen slighly convex makes grinding curved blades much easier than using a wheel. You can use wider wheels and belts, but you limit your self to working at the edge of the belt and have to be careful about making contact on the opposite side of the belt while you are moving the blade.

Shoud you start with an easier grind? I don't think so. The idea is to do something you like. For some, it is just the idea of making a knife. For others, it is making a particular design or style. Even if you start with an easier grind, you will still make some mistakes and still have to learn. Besides, there are challenges in every type of grind, some look you in the face others hide until you start making a few passes. I say, stay with the kerambit. Expect mistakes, expect some frustration but most of all, expect the pride and joy you will experience when you get to the final product.

The other thing I suggest to everyone starting out, make a few knives using only files and sand paper. It gives you an interesting perspective on making a knife.
Click to expand...

I didn't have a manufacturer in mind and I'm still exploring the idea (where to put it, etc) but I was thinking I'd start with a 1" similar to this:
1-inch-belt-sander.jpg


I was turned on to the idea by Wayne Goddard's setup in his $50 knife shop book and it just 'felt' like the best idea. I'm a welder/fabricator and I'm accustomed to making steel do what I want and when it rebelled a bit on this project, I decided to try what I do when I feel like I'm headed in the wrong direction and explore new tools. I didn't go with the files for the sake of time but I will definitely give it a shot before I set my mind on the sander. At least with the files and sandpaper it would take me a lot longer to screw it up, right?

P.S. I'm honored to have your advice, I'm a big fan of a number of your designs. Did you know that the Thumbdrive fits perfectly in an Altoids tin survival kit?
:D
 
Well, thank you for the kind words! I appreciate it. The ThumbDrive turned out to be a pretty cool little blade, considering it started life as a piece of scrap.

It looks like you have the right idea for the set up. Being a fabricator you should be able to build a nice rig. I look forward to seeing it and seeing your kerambit. I agree with butcher_block, your rough grinds look good. It shoould clean up quite nice.
 
Dirk said:
Well, thank you for the kind words! I appreciate it. The ThumbDrive turned out to be a pretty cool little blade, considering it started life as a piece of scrap.

It looks like you have the right idea for the set up. Being a fabricator you should be able to build a nice rig. I look forward to seeing it and seeing your kerambit. I agree with butcher_block, your rough grinds look good. It shoould clean up quite nice.
Click to expand...

I'd heard that it started as scrap somewhere, probably whilst showing off my kit. I've seen a couple of images of a reverse-karambit that is attributed to you and if it is your design, is it a production model? I had a bit of trouble spacing out the handle and finger grooves, do you have a method for this type of knife?
 
So, how is Kbit coming along?

The reverse karambit you are talking about was designed by one of my clients. There has been a some talk about doing some type of production run of the design. That is a ways off.

I do not have any standardized method for spacing the finger hole in relationship to the handle. I just think through the blade shape and angle how it would most likely be used, remembering that as the ring is positioned more on the end of the handle/pommel the more the knife wants to sit back in the palm. I am sure there are a few guys who regularly do karambits that have some standardized method they follow. I would be interested to hear it.
 
That's nice, Rick, however we know that you are practically a god, so making that knife with files and paper probably took you about 12 seconds.
 
Dirk: I haven't done anything with the kbit but I did order a 1x30 belt sander and a set of files that should be here in a few days. I figured I'd wait on working on it until I had a few more tools at my disposal.

Rick: That knife is amazing, exactly the sort of elemental/primeval look and finish I want for my project. I didn't even know you were into karambits, great work! I'll have to remember not to take any pictures of my finished project with my version of your anorak or tongues might start to wag.
:D
 
Blais - Looking forward to seeing it.

Rick - Off the hook! That thing flows like old meandering river, nice and smooth.

Karambits can be one of the more difficult knives to get the lines to flow just right.
 
So I finally had a few minutes to try out my new belt sander and it's a tool I'm glad I purchased. I got the hang of maintaining the proper angle through the curve pretty quickly and I started to notice some mistakes I had made early on. I hadn't maintained the angle properly with the file and had filed the tip into an S shape. It's almost fixed now but I'm going to lose a bit of the tip. There's plenty left so I'm not too worried about it but it also looks like I ended up with low spots in the bevel so I'm going to lose a bit of width too. You can see the low spots pretty clearly:
Photo on 2012-03-22 at 16.34.jpgPhoto on 2012-03-22 at 16.34 #2.jpg

Not a lot of progress but quite a bit of learning!
 
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