Katana in CPM 3V: Forge or stock reduction?

Lumanid

Lumanid

Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
19
I’m making a non-traditional katana-style sword from CPM 3V and my priority is to make the blade as STRONG as possible. For strength and cutting power, I’m planning on a extra-wide 2” blade.

I’m wondering if I should start with a 2” wide piece of bar stock and create the curve in the blade by forging, or if I should start with a 4” or 5” piece of bar stock and then only do CNC stock removal? Will forging the curve into the blade create a risk of reducing the strength or imparting a curve or twist?

I plan on heat treating by sending the blade to Peter’s Heat Treat.

Would appreciate any feedback. Thanks.
 
I know nothing, BUT I would check first if Peters has any reservations about heat-treating forged 3V.
 
Start with 1.5" bar and forge the sori in. From there go to stock removal. You want to end up 1.5" wide at the machi, and 1" wide at the monouchi.
If forging get a 1" bar and forge the bevels out.

2" is insanely wide, and not a katana. If you start with a 2" bar you could grind in the sori.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Start with 1.5" bar and forge the sori in. From there go to stock removal. You want to end up 1.5" wide at the machi, and 1" wide at the monouchi.
If forging get a 1" bar and forge the bevels out.

2" is insanely wide, and not a katana. If you start with a 2" bar you could grind in the sori.
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When I said my design is a “non-traditional katana-style” sword, I meant REALLY non-traditional. Think along the lines of the Keffeler Super Assassin or this: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/gso-20-request-thread.1339628/
 
It is your project, so don't let me influence your idea. The following is some information for thought.

When you say the word katana, most people will expect some semblance to that style and shape ( size, thickness, weight, tuska, etc.)
If you say, "Japanese style Zombie Slayer", no one will have a pre-conceived thought about what it should look like.

There are reasons that real swords are shaped the way they are, and reasons why fantasy swords are shaped anyway you want. Actual performance falls into category one. Coolness is in category two. Rarely do the two coincide. Weight alone will be that major factor of this sword. At 48X2X.375", the bar will weigh over 10 pounds
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
It is your project, so don't let me influence your idea. The following is some information for thought.

When you say the word katana, most people will expect some semblance to that style and shape ( size, thickness, weight, tuska, etc.)
If you say, "Japanese style Zombie Slayer", no one will have a pre-conceived thought about what it should look like.

There are reasons that real swords are shaped the way they are, and reasons why fantasy swords are shaped anyway you want. Actual performance falls into category one. Coolness is in category two. Rarely do the two coincide. Weight alone will be that major factor of this sword. At 48X2X.375", the bar will weigh over 10 pounds
Click to expand...

Well, if Dan Keffeler can refer to his Super Assassin as a “katana” (see
) I figured I could, too.

But, I get your point. Perhaps I’ll just say “behemoth zombie slayer sword” in the future. LOL.

BTW, I’m aiming to keep my sword under 4 lbs. Even with a 38.5” total length and 2” blade width, Dan kept his under 4 lbs.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
It is your project, so don't let me influence your idea. The following is some information for thought.

When you say the word katana, most people will expect some semblance to that style and shape ( size, thickness, weight, tuska, etc.)
If you say, "Japanese style Zombie Slayer", no one will have a pre-conceived thought about what it should look like.

There are reasons that real swords are shaped the way they are, and reasons why fantasy swords are shaped anyway you want. Actual performance falls into category one. Coolness is in category two. Rarely do the two coincide. Weight alone will be that major factor of this sword. At 48X2X.375", the bar will weigh over 10 pounds
Click to expand...

BTW, do you know where to procure CPM 3V in lengths LONGER than 36”? All that I can find in bar stock is max 36” length.
 
Lumanid said:
BTW, do you know where to procure CPM 3V in lengths LONGER than 36”? All that I can find in bar stock is max 36” length.
Click to expand...

Niagara Specialty Metals
 
Yeah so. No. None of dan Keffeler swords are katana, kogatana.. i shouldnt say none. None of what I have seen HERE are Katana. who knows what he makes. hes a better maker than I am, but its not a katana

In actual fact they are based on wakizashi length, with stupid long handles. Thats what it is, a wakizashi with a long handle.

If it didn't have a curve, one would call those blades ninja-to without loss of time.

That said, its a great project. I suspect he needed to bevel off more material to be able to afford the weight of a tsuba/tsuka and other accoutrements.

4 lbs for something that short... its like a full foot too short to call a sword.

Great for infighting with zombie. Still at that length, id rather a cutlass with a violent looking basket hilt with cup hilt/Italian foil rings inside for greater maneuverability. It has the advantage of counterweight that katana doesn't have.
 
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I got to hold that Super Assassin katana and swing it around when it was finished, and it did not feel particularly heavy. The latest version of the normal length Super Assassin is really light.
 
Mecha said:
I got to hold that Super Assassin katana and swing it around when it was finished, and it did not feel particularly heavy. The latest version of the normal length Super Assassin is really light.
Click to expand...

Awesome. For such a beast of a cutting blade, it's impressive that Dan has made them so lightweight.
 
Lumanid said:
Awesome. For such a beast of a cutting blade, it's impressive that Dan has made them so lightweight.
Click to expand...

They’re just well-balanced with great distribution of the weight. They move nicely. Some blades that weigh less feel like a crowbar.
 
Lumanid said:
I’m making a non-traditional katana-style sword from CPM 3V and my priority is to make the blade as STRONG as possible. For strength and cutting power, I’m planning on a extra-wide 2” blade.

I’m wondering if I should start with a 2” wide piece of bar stock and create the curve in the blade by forging, or if I should start with a 4” or 5” piece of bar stock and then only do CNC stock removal? Will forging the curve into the blade create a risk of reducing the strength or imparting a curve or twist?

I plan on heat treating by sending the blade to Peter’s Heat Treat.

Would appreciate any feedback. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Lumanid

Shoot me a message and I will tell you what you need to know for your project.
 
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Tony Park said:
Yeah so. No. None of dan Keffeler swords are katana, kogatana..

In actual fact they are based on wakizashi length, with stupid long handles. Thats what it is, a wakizashi with a long handle.

If it didn't have a curve, one would call those blades ninja-to without loss of time.

That said, its a great project. I suspect he needed to bevel off more material to be able to afford the weight of a tsuba/tsuka and other accoutrements.

4 lbs for something that short... its like a full foot too short to call a sword.

Great for infighting with zombie. Still at that length, id rather a cutlass with a violent looking basket hilt with cup hilt/Italian foil rings inside for greater maneuverability. It has the advantage of counterweight that katana doesn't have.
Click to expand...

Tony Park

Did I do something to offend you?
There's a lot of misinformation in this post regarding your description of what type of blades I make.

Dan
 
Dan be like:

BONztX4.gif


LEN7s9a.gif
 
Dan Keffeler said:
Tony Park

Did I do something to offend you?
There's a lot of misinformation in this post regarding your description of what type of blades I make.

Dan
Click to expand...


Oh no not at all. It's just that calling what I saw made in the video "katana" just doesn't pass muster. They aren't even remotely katana. At best they are wakizashi with long handle. By the by i didnt mean stupid long as an insult, I meant it as a turn of phrase to mean incredibly long. Sorry if that didnt get across.

It's a stretch to call them uchigatana. Other than the curvature of the blade and the point(sort of) it's not even a Japanese sword at all.

What it is is awesome. It is a very western, modern post apocalyptic wakizashi. It's a nice weapon, but it is not katana. No one in the NHTBK or JSSUS would call it one. Don't be offended.
 
Tony Park said:
I wouldnt get too ahead of yourself. Its been 30 years since I've had that view of someone looking down on me. :)
Click to expand...

I don't like to miss an opportunity to post that kangaroo face. :D
 
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