Kayaks-advice for a newby

trevytrev

trevytrev

Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
2,480
So I'm looking to get a one man kayak for paddling around some of the local small rivers and lakes we have here in St.Louis. I'll probably fish a little from the kayak and carry a little gear but probably nothing for multi day trips at this point. I've used a little google fu to do some research but figured I'd ask some of you folks who paddle for advice on what to look for, what to avoid and any advice you can offer. I'm looking $500 max if I can but but would be willing to step up to avoid having to upgrade later. Pics of your gear kayak and gear would be awesome! Thanks in advance! Trevor~
 
Hey man! No doubt you will get some good advice here. I am not a butt-boater so I can't be of much help to you. What I can do is direct you to some super friendly and helpful experts near you. This site is peopled by canoeists and yakkers of all skills from beginners to pros, and certified instructors. And they know yakkers and affiliate clubs all over the wide area. Go there and register, introduce yourself and repeat your questions there.

http://forums.arkansascanoeclub.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=07799a834f65ca147bad67cefe2ed114

This is the Arkansas Canoe Club with affiliate chapters and members across a wide area including near you. A bit of training and a paddling partner makes the learning quicker and safer. They can advise you on equipment, local rivers and lakes, techniques. And most likely outfit you with a loaner boat and equipment for the first few outings.

As for a particular boat, you might want to consider buying used for your first. Then you can decide later how far you want to go with the sport, what you would like to upgrade. Instead of buying something new which your skills will quickly outgrow.

Oh! And as to "Yakker" and "butt boater", a friendly rivalry exists between the paddlers of the two different vessels. All in good fun and with a lot of mutual support. And some crossover skills to boot. Good luck and enjoy! :thumbup:

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how big are you?
I'm 6'1" and 265# and a friend suggested I should to look at the 12' Tarpon -- unfortunately, they're more than $500 new.
you might also check with places that rent kayaks and see what kind of winter specials they have on used boats.
 
Thanks for the info and links, I'll have to go over and peruse the forums over there! I'll take a look around on craigslist for used boats, good idea! I can see me ending up with both a Kayak and Canoe at some point, the kayak when I'm out on my own or the canoe when my kids get old enough to come out with me. That way, I can straddle the yakker and butt-paddler rivalry:D

I'm 6'1 and weigh about 165, I'll check out that 12' Tarpon, though it looks a little out of my range.
 
Many paddlers acquire a small fleet over time with a variety of boats. I am down to just two canoes right now myself, but will likely pick up another this spring if I run across a deal too good to pass up. Both of my current canoes and the last two I sold all were Craigslist finds.
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By the way, I paddle both of these tandem or solo.
 
I'd second the rental idea. Rent a few different types and lengths to see what you like best...they're sort of like cars in that you may hate the feel and features of one, but another might feel right.
 
at 165# you should be good to go in a 10' boat, which drops costs significantly.
 
I have a 12' Wilderness Systems Tarpon and yes, it exceeded your budget. I bought it slightly used a few years ago. Definitely get a sit on top for fishing and the wider ones give you a bit more stability, but are slower to paddle around.

I would check the used kayaks at some of the shops that sell kayaks. They get trade ins.
 
Thanks fellas, been looking through forums and reading reviews. I'm leaning towards an Emotion Stealth Angler 11 but there are others I'm looking at as well. Also looking around for used ones and put some people on alert to keep and eye out for used canoes as well!
 
Canoes are very tippy solo especially fishing when you might be leaning over the side. A sit on top kayak is more stable.
 
Thanks for the info 22, I was thinking a canoe as an add on if I can find one cheap. Something to tool around in with the kids if I find a sturdy one, since they won't fit on my kayak.
 
22-rimfire said:
Canoes are very tippy solo especially fishing when you might be leaning over the side. A sit on top kayak is more stable.
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Not really. It depends on the hull configuration the same as with yaks. In my wide Old Town canoe, I've had a four year old and a 45 pound dog up front in constant motion, swapping sides sometimes both on the same side, and we never flipped. I can stand up in it to cast easily. My Bell Morningstar is configured differently and is more tender on initial stability but has excellent secondary stability. I've paddled both solo and with dog and child passengers without ever flipping them. Or losing a passenger.
 
I would assume if you had a flat bottom canoe it adds stability and reduces the tip-ability, likewise a more v bottomed canoe probably wouldn't be a wise choice for a couple of fidgety kids.
 
trevytrev said:
I would assume if you had a flat bottom canoe it adds stability and reduces the tip-ability, likewise a more v bottomed canoe probably wouldn't be a wise choice for a couple of fidgety kids.
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You have that totally backwards.

The flat bottom canoes have great initial stability, but lousy secondary. A v bottom with good tumble home will tilt only to the secondary point of stability. I've had many canoes over 40 years, and the worst was flat bottoms. A shallow V hull or even a slightly rounded bottom is very good stability. Once the flat bottom goes past a certain point, they go ov er fast with very poor forgiveness.
 
Codger certainly has a lot more experience with canoes than I do. So, I yield to him. But I tend to agree with what Jackknife said about hull configuration and tippy-ness. Once your kids play around with your kayak, they will want their own..... just to let you know. But there are some really inexpensive ones that work for younger kids. Kids LOVE yaks!!
 
Actually the hull is a three-dimensional shape and the shape of every dimension affects stability and performance in the water. Take the length. A hull that is essentially flat end to end (has no rocker) tracks better in the water. A hull which rises from the middle to the ends (has rocker) turns better but is somewhat slower and less faithful tracking.

The hull bottom can be one of three general shapes, flat, vee or rounded. Initial stability varies with that shape. Throw in a keel into the mix which adds directional stability. Then the shape of the sides, hard chine, rounded chine and tumblehome. They all affect secondary stability. None is bad, they just serve different purposes. And provide for different handling characteristics. Some are proper for general recreation and flat water, some are better for moving water where maneuverability is important, and some are best for whitewater where maneuverability is of chief importance. The flatwater canoe will handle the faster water but with a lot more work since it wants to track straight. The moving water canoe will handle flatwater but with more work to keep it on course. The whitewater canoe will be a lot of work on flatwater but be capable of quick directional changes required to achieve eddys, clear obstructions and handle waves. Clear as mud I know.

FYI, though not too apparent in my photos above, the Old Town Guide 169 has a flat bottom and keel. It is long and wide and is very stable, but a bear to turn quickly in whitewater. It is rated as a general recreation canoe. The Bell Morningstar, a David Yost design, has a shallow arch hull, differential rocker (more lift front than rear) and significant tumblehome. She is very maneuverable but still manageable on flatwater. The canoe I sold last year, the Blue Hole Sunburst, had significant rocker, rounded hull bottom and soft chines. It was a bear on flatwater but at home on twisty fast water where constant direction changes were required. It also had poor stability and depended on the canoeist's balance for staying upright.

Old Town Canoes has a much clearer explanation on their website. Take the time to read it for a better overview of hull dynamics.

http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/canoe_anatomy/
 
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I have a couple that I use for fishing and my advice is to keep it light weight and cheap. For example my Future Beach Fusion 10 is light enough to easily move around (out of the water) and for what it cost ($199.00) there is no need to "worry" about it.



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I have a Future Beach kayak that I'm very happy with.. Its 14ft long and was @ $400 brand new. It's a pack mule for my camping trips. I have a thread with pictures posted in here as well..CD
 
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