Keep the Coating or Force Patina?

C

CrazzyAzzy

Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
78
Hey guys so I finally got me a BK7 for Christmas and was wondering if I should do a forced patina. The project seems like an awesome thing to do during my free time but I was wondering if it's more work than it's worth.

I've been surfing the forums and people are saying that patina makes high carbons less prone to red rust but does this mean I still have to oil the whole blade if I remove the coating and patina the whole thing? I was thinking of removing the coating just along the blade and leave the tang underneath the scales alone. This way maintenance would only be on the blade instead of possibly the whole knife?

What I'm thinking is strip the scales, cover and tape off the handle portion, strip the blade, soak the blade in white vinegar, then do a pattern patina on top, and finish it off with a other vinegar soak. Any suggestions?
 
I'm going to strip the finish off my BK16 and 14 later on today. I have the next two weeks off and not much to do up in the North Country.
I've never liked the gritty finish on the 16 so what the heck...I'll also patina the finish...I'm going to try to achieve a "hamon" type finish you find on some Katana's...going to try using tape...we'll see how it works out.
 
I don't have a BK7 or any Ka_bar for that matter. I assume it's one of those (too) thick (survival) knives with a "sticky" coating. I would get rid of the coating right away or even better buy a knife without it in the first place. Then thin out the profile so it actually cuts. Since you should maintain a thin primary grind anyway, IMHO a patina does not make much sense since you will "sharpen it away" anyway. I have much more experience with use of O1 and 52100 but in regards to roost etc. there is not much of a difference I believe. If you use your knife it will obtain a patina in the right places anyway/naturally after a while. Use your knife which also means don't abuse it, take care of it which means clean it/dry it (on your jeans if necessary) and you will not have a problem. Short term you can store it even in the leather sheath if it is in a dry place and humidity is not a problem. Otherwise keep it outside the sheath and coated.
 
awestib said:
I don't have a BK7 or any Ka_bar for that matter. I assume it's one of those (too) thick (survival) knives with a "sticky" coating. I would get rid of the coating right away or even better buy a knife without it in the first place. Then thin out the profile so it actually cuts. Since you should maintain a thin primary grind anyway, IMHO a patina does not make much sense since you will "sharpen it away" anyway. I have much more experience with use of O1 and 52100 but in regards to roost etc. there is not much of a difference I believe. If you use your knife it will obtain a patina in the right places anyway/naturally after a while. Use your knife which also means don't abuse it, take care of it which means clean it/dry it (on your jeans if necessary) and you will not have a problem. Short term you can store it even in the leather sheath if it is in a dry place and humidity is not a problem. Otherwise keep it outside the sheath and coated.
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Yeah I know it'll obtain a patina on its own thru use but I can't stand watching the coating wear away slowly. I'd rather just remove the coating first, patina it. And just deal with sharpening the edge. For me it's more of a cosmetic issue first before a functionality issue. So the question here is, is the 3 layer patina I proposed an effective method of inhibiting rust and will I need to oil the whole blade now instead of just the cutting edge.
 
I think your method sounds like a good one! I just got a BRK Bravo-1 and I"m going to do the patina on that :) But I'm going to have my wife do the cool designs on it. She the artist in the house.

Ive read countless threads about the patina, and they are all in agreement. Haven't read a negative one. Plus I think it looks way cool!!
 
kwazyjuice said:
I think your method sounds like a good one! I just got a BRK Bravo-1 and I"m going to do the patina on that :) But I'm going to have my wife do the cool designs on it. She the artist in the house.

Ive read countless threads about the patina, and they are all in agreement. Haven't read a negative one. Plus I think it looks way cool!!
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So is a forced patina a good preventer of rust or should I oil the blade over the patina as well?
 
From what I've read... is that the patina will protect the blade from corrosion. I would still care for the knife properly though.
 
Hopefully the 3 layers of patina will be enough to prevent rust from building. I'm California so it doesn't get too humid over here. I also won't be carrying it in a leather sheath, gonna stick to the factory nylon one. If I do decide to do it I'll definitely posts pics and keep you guys all posted! Still just trying to think of an idea on how to cover the rest of the blade from the paint stripper. I feel like tape could get saturated and end up eating away at the coating.
 
Definitely strip. The coating scuffs and catches, plus it ends up looking terrible if you actually use your knife.
 
CrazzyAzzy said:
Hopefully the 3 layers of patina will be enough to prevent rust from building. I'm California so it doesn't get too humid over here. I also won't be carrying it in a leather sheath, gonna stick to the factory nylon one. If I do decide to do it I'll definitely posts pics and keep you guys all posted! Still just trying to think of an idea on how to cover the rest of the blade from the paint stripper. I feel like tape could get saturated and end up eating away at the coating.
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Yeah definitely keep us updated with pics :)
 
CrazzyAzzy said:
Hopefully the 3 layers of patina will be enough to prevent rust from building. I'm California so it doesn't get too humid over here. I also won't be carrying it in a leather sheath, gonna stick to the factory nylon one. If I do decide to do it I'll definitely posts pics and keep you guys all posted! Still just trying to think of an idea on how to cover the rest of the blade from the paint stripper. I feel like tape could get saturated and end up eating away at the coating.
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Yeah definitely keep us updated with pics :)
 
CrazzyAzzy said:
So is a forced patina a good preventer of rust or should I oil the blade over the patina as well?
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A forced (or natural) patina isn't bulletproof, so far as rust is concerned. I am convinced, however, that it can definitely slow down the formation of rust. Combined with keeping good habits about cleaning & drying the blade regularly, it makes maintenance easier. Oiling certainly doesn't hurt either. It'll be easy to see how much your blade will need, over time. If you patina, and then frequently still notice some spotting or rusting on the blade, extra steps like oiling would be a good idea. Acids and salts (from fruit/food, seawater, etc.) will accelerate rusting quite a bit, patinated or not; this is why it's still important to clean the blade after using it, and making sure it's clean & dry before storing it.


David
 
The only thing holding me back is if I have to oil the whole area that I stripped and forced a patina or do I just have to oil the cutting edge since that's really the only part that's really going to be opposed. I just really hate oil in general because I have OCD and oily things absolutely destroy me so the less amount of oil the better.
 
The best thing for you to do is buy a stainless steel knife!
If the coating remains intact on the blade, you won't have to oil it. If you strip the coating, you will need to periodically oil the whole blade.
 
CrazzyAzzy said:
The only thing holding me back is if I have to oil the whole area that I stripped and forced a patina or do I just have to oil the cutting edge since that's really the only part that's really going to be opposed. I just really hate oil in general because I have OCD and oily things absolutely destroy me so the less amount of oil the better.
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Sharpen after, that will bring the edge color back.
 
Alright so here's the plan: I'm using Klean-Strip paint remover on JUST the blade area, then doing a white vinegar bath for about 4 minutes, then a mustard pattern design, and then finished with a 3 minute white vinegar bath. Does that sound like a good idea? Can the vinegar actually "eat the metal" if I leave the blade in too long? This is my first high carbon knife and I want to do it right. Also if I strip the coating does that void my warranty with Kabar?
 
CrazzyAzzy said:
The only thing holding me back is if I have to oil the whole area that I stripped and forced a patina or do I just have to oil the cutting edge since that's really the only part that's really going to be opposed. I just really hate oil in general because I have OCD and oily things absolutely destroy me so the less amount of oil the better.
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The oil doesn't have to be heavy to be effective. A light coat of mineral oil leaves just enough to fill up pores in the steel's surface; likely won't even notice it's presence an hour after application, and the blade would feel essentially dry after a day. But the protection will still be there. Easy to 'test' for it's presence by dripping a drop or two of water on the blade, and seeing if it beads up and rolls off.

CrazzyAzzy said:
Alright so here's the plan: I'm using Klean-Strip paint remover on JUST the blade area, then doing a white vinegar bath for about 4 minutes, then a mustard pattern design, and then finished with a 3 minute white vinegar bath. Does that sound like a good idea? Can the vinegar actually "eat the metal" if I leave the blade in too long? This is my first high carbon knife and I want to do it right. Also if I strip the coating does that void my warranty with Kabar?
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The vinegar is an acid, so it does effectively 'eat' some steel; you'll might see some red oxide (rust) produced, which is the evidence of that. The key is, it'll also leave behind a thin layer of black oxide, AFTER the acid is neutralized and the red rust cleaned away (scrub with baking soda & rinse thoroughly). That black oxide is the 'patina' which will help to slow down further rusting/corrosion, afterwards.

I'm sure stripping the coating will void the warranty, which effectively removes the manufacturer's own treatment for corrosion control. You're trading off some of that for an improvement in cutting and aesthetics, basically, by stripping the coating and smoothing the surface of the blade. Applying the patina affords some protection to the bare steel afterwards, but still wouldn't quite do as much as the coating itself. As with any knife, though, most of what will protect the blade in the long run will come down to maintaining good habits about cleaning it and storing it. And that's not really very difficult anyway; these are easier to take care of than most would assume. Just use it and clean it (and oil, if needed), as you'd presumably do with any other tool.


David
 
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So after I do the vinegar bath I should dry it off with say a paper towel, then pour some baking soda over it and the rinse it off? So paint strip, towel dry, water rinse, vinegar bath, towel dry, baking soda, water rinse? This is my first time doing this and I don't have enough money to replace my BK7 if I mess it up so I'm trying to take every precaution and doing it right step by step.
 
CrazzyAzzy said:
So after I do the vinegar bath I should dry it off with say a paper towel, then pour some baking soda over it and the rinse it off? So paint strip, towel dry, water rinse, vinegar bath, towel dry, baking soda, water rinse? This is my first time doing this and I don't have enough money to replace my BK7 if I mess it up so I'm trying to take every precaution and doing it right step by step.
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Scrub the blade with the baking soda; don't be shy about using a liberal amount of it, perhaps mixed with a little water to make a paste. Can use a brush (like a toothbrush) or a paper towel or rag for scrubbing. Initially, the baking soda will remove a good bit of oxide (maybe red rust, and some of the black). When you see that the baking soda paste is coming away clean (not red/brown/black), it should be ready to wash the blade. Then wash/rinse the blade thoroughly; dish detergent & water will work.

The only way to really ruin the blade is if any of the stripper or vinegar (caustics/acids) are left on it for way too long; the blade will likely show a lot of rust and deep pitting if so. Even then, it's still essentially cosmetic damage; almost impossible to ruin it functionally. Just keep an eye on it as you work, and don't walk away from it until it's cleaned up.


David
 
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Thank you very much, friend. I'll probably get around to it within the next couple of days. I'll definitely be posting pics!
 
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