Keeping heat in the blade?

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Oct 19, 2011
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When I'm forging I get 12-20 strikes on the blade before the color is mostly gone and I have to put it back in the forge. In case it matters, I'm using a 126# Trenton anvil and a variety of hammers but mostly a 24oz ball peen. Is that normal or do you keep heat in your blade longer. If so how?
 
During some operations, especially initial forging where precision doesn't matter as much as how much steel I am moving, I will tend to work on the upper end of the temps and i will lift the piece off the anvil between blows (either completely, or leave just one small contact point). This will retain heat for longer, but it takes a bit of practice. The other thing is just develop a good fast rhythm for your hammer blows. Watch this dude and you will learn a ton of good forging techniques.

Joe
 
A ball peen is a poor forging hammer. A proper hammer will move metal better and faster. Other tricks are bouncing the blade with the blows as Lieblad noted, and working the blade at full forging heat. Most folks work the blade far too cool. I usually forge between 2000 and 1600.
 
Marc I was taught by an MS to preheat your anvil. He was keen on demonstrating to us how much heat was in the anvil face after he stopped forging for five or ten minutes and it was surprising how much heat it retained. I imagine you can lay a warm piece of metal on it for a minute or so or you could do what I do and attempt making a pair of tongs for the 97th time before forging a knife.

-Clint
 
Here are some of the various hammers I use. I have some others for specific chores. For most of the heavy moving and shaping I use a 2.5# cross pein or engineers hammer or whatever they're called (far right). I use the ball pein for tighter spaces and more control as the blade starts getting thinner. Sometimes I might use a hammer as heavy as a 4 or 8# but it is of more use to me to place my hammer blows accurately so I use a hammer I can control. I don't have the budget right now for "proper" forging hammers. Besides, what hammer to get? French pattern, German, Japanese? What weight(s)? I'm not the best at judging temps by color yet so I judge by the scale coming off the work piece. I work at a bright orange heat. A mastersmith with whom I had taken several classes told me that large flakes of scale shouldn't be coming off. The scale should be small like snowflakes. So I try to keep that in mind when judging the forging range. I get it hotter sometimes if I really need to move some larger sections but basically I try to keep it bright orange. I had the idea a while back that I could keep a large bar of mild steel cooking in the forge and keep swapping it back and forth with the blade so that it keeps the anvil hot when the blade is in the forge. That could get very tedious though.

 
Hi all!. First of all: Marc, your shop floor is WAY too clean. I could send you a bag or 2 of scale if you'd like....
But really, my $0.02: Once the anvil is warm, just working your piece should keep it that way, you wouldn't need to keep putting the heater bar on it (depending on shop temp, of course). Also, it looks to me like all of your hammers and your anvil have pretty sharp edges/corners. If that's true, I'd suggest taking a flap disc to all of your hammers and round the edges to lessen the chance of marking your work
 
Thanks weo. My shop is also my garage so I try to clean up after working and making a mess. The small and large ball peins could use some rounding. I have already rounded the edges on the mid size ball pein and the 2.5#, 4# and 8# hammers as well as some smaller hammers I use for tighter spaces. The black hammer with the straight pein I don't use much. It's basically there for the tighter radius pein when I need it. The 2.5# hammer has had the cross pein radius widened. I use that for drawing out material in a particular direction.
 
I tend to prefer a 4.5lb for moving metal. I use a 4.5 rounding hammer for about 90% of my forging. I use a 4.5 cross pein for the rest of it. The only forging I do with a lighter hammer is when I am working on stock 1/8 thick or less, as even light blows to the edge with the 4lb hammers tend to cause the edge to roll. When forging thin stock, finalizing bevels, and planishing, I use a Peddinghaus 800gm German Pattern. I essentially never touch my 2.5lb hammers. I have a number of other hammers that I also almost never use.

I find that the smaller hammers are exhausting and hard on joints when you try to move metal with them. And even then, they just don't move it well. A properly radiused, heavy rounding hammer forges quickly, and I have found to be nearly as precise as a smaller hammer in almost all forging situations. I find this doubly true when you are really trying to move metal, because I have a tendency to swing a lighter hammer instead of just dropping it and letting the gravity do the work. I find that swinging a hammer significantly reduces precision. When I am 'dropping' the hammer instead of swinging it, I have essentially removed all but two variables: the height from which I drop it will control the impact energy, and the position and angle of the blow will be set essentially by the hammer's orientation as I guide it down.
 
I was using a 4# sledge (with abbreviated handle) today to forge out a blade. I must admit it did go a bit faster. However, I still use the smaller hammers when doing a lot of the tweaking/straightening at the end. Do you have a recommended source for rounding hammers?
 
Take your 4 lb sledge and grind a good rounding die into one of the faces. Flatten the opposite face and just smoothly radius the edges of the flat die so that you don't make hammer marks with the flat die. I like to use a decreasing radius on mu rounding dies. By that I mean more flat at the center of the face and getting rounder as you approach the edge. Googling for a good picture as an example just led me to this thread. I dig the dies of those hammers, but I tend to prefer a bit longer and more retangular profiled handle. Also, if you are doing a bunch of hammer re profiling, I recommend tung oil finish for the handles.
 
That's a good link. I'll mod my 4 pounder or pick up a new 4 pounder to mod. I have watched a lot of Brian's vids. He is amazing.
 
Ok, I re-profiled my 4lb hammer. I made a rounding face on one side and a "flat" or slightly crowned face on the other side. Can you tell me if these profiles look right or effective? Does the round side need to be rounder? Does the flat side need to be flatter? Any changes you would make?



 
Hey Marc I think you are close. I tried to find a photo of one of Brian's but all I could find was imitations. I think his are a little more rounded and a bit flatter. I remember being surprised when I saw how round it actually was. Excellent job though!

On a side note did you get an email from me about wood stabilizing? I have had some issues lately sending emails through the forum.

-Clint
 
In the opening shot of his video on why he uses a rounding hammer we get a pretty good look at the profiles. I think you are correct. Slightly rounder and slightly flatter. But as you say, I'm close. I think I'll use mine the way it is for a while just to get the hang of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCiMitLk5GI



No, Clint. I'm sorry. I didn't get an email from you. I would've remembered. And I look over everything that ends up in my junk folder. Send it outside the forum to:

aldrich.kt@outlook.com
 
I say just use it, and reprofile as necessary. They look good to me though. Also, I would consider getting a length of hickory and replacing that handle. Your joints will thank you later. Fiberglass handles coupled with metal hitting metal make for some nasty reverb. Plus, the grippy surface of the hammer may actually be working against you when forging. It tends to make swapping hammer faces a bit more troublesome, and repositioning your hand for control or speed more cumbersome. Plus, you can shape a wood handle to your liking (my recommendation is large and rectangular in profile, with well rounded edges. I don't much like taper or any figuring along the shaft. And if you start large, you can always reprofile down later). I also recommend Tung or Boiled Linseed oil for a finish rather than a varnish or other other surface finish.
 
Thanks Joe. I haven't gotten any nasty shock coming through the handle. Plus, I think this handle is epoxied in place so I don't know if I want to go to the trouble of trying to get it out. I use hockey tape on the handles. It wears in quickly and isn't tacky. It gets smooth but not slippery. I don't like it when a hammer wants to twist in my hand upon impact. The tape keeps the handle oriented the way I want in my hand. If I re-handle any of my hammers I'll keep your advice in mind.
 
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